Some advice with knock and adjustment [pics]
Originally Posted by Ralph
Divided by 12000 Works.. comes out to exactly what I had.. 

RPM divided by 60 to get RPsec
this div. by 2 to get because firering each 2 rounds (same as RPM / 120)
To convert this to time: 1/ (rpm/120) witch is 120/rpm (with had a unit of sec)
div IPW witch is in ms by 1000 to get sec: IPW /1000
Calc the duty cycle by divide the IPW (in sec) by the firering time:
(IPW/1000) / (120/rpm) = (IPW*RPM) / (120*1000)
You get a 1 for 100%. If you format this cell as % in Excel, it will show this automatically.
You can also multiply this with 100 to get a number witch represent %
this will be then (IPW*RPM) / 1200
To bring more light in this calculation.
120,000 or 1,200 are the *magic* Numbers
this div. by 2 to get because firering each 2 rounds (same as RPM / 120)
To convert this to time: 1/ (rpm/120) witch is 120/rpm (with had a unit of sec)
div IPW witch is in ms by 1000 to get sec: IPW /1000
Calc the duty cycle by divide the IPW (in sec) by the firering time:
(IPW/1000) / (120/rpm) = (IPW*RPM) / (120*1000)
You get a 1 for 100%. If you format this cell as % in Excel, it will show this automatically.
You can also multiply this with 100 to get a number witch represent %
this will be then (IPW*RPM) / 1200
To bring more light in this calculation.
120,000 or 1,200 are the *magic* Numbers
I used
RPM * IPW / 1200 to get my duty cycle in a percentage.
Here is what I got. (My personal car. Test pipe and intake)
Pretty interesting that in stock form the car will run over 90% duty cycle.
I'm not sure I like that. I personally don't like running over 80%.
Is there a general concensus on what the max reliable duty cycle should be?
Since this is a stock car and stock map, I'm guessing Mitsu thinks it's ok.
RPM * IPW / 1200 to get my duty cycle in a percentage.
Here is what I got. (My personal car. Test pipe and intake)
Pretty interesting that in stock form the car will run over 90% duty cycle.
I'm not sure I like that. I personally don't like running over 80%.
Is there a general concensus on what the max reliable duty cycle should be?
Since this is a stock car and stock map, I'm guessing Mitsu thinks it's ok.
Last edited by SophieSleeps; Nov 3, 2006 at 10:05 PM.
Originally Posted by SophieSleeps
Suggestions?




how much boost was this pull on?? judging by the low load its got to be around 19psi
First thing I would do is get a wideband and hook it up. you really can't safely tune a car without one.
second thing I would do reduce the timing in the 180-200 areas and rescale from 6500 to 11000 in those same load cells, your timing jumps around a bit.
Originally Posted by AlwaysinBoost
i just skimmed the thread, didn't read every post so don't sue me if this has already been covered.
how much boost was this pull on?? judging by the low load its got to be around 19psi
First thing I would do is get a wideband and hook it up. you really can't safely tune a car without one.
second thing I would do reduce the timing in the 180-200 areas and rescale from 6500 to 11000 in those same load cells, your timing jumps around a bit.
how much boost was this pull on?? judging by the low load its got to be around 19psi
First thing I would do is get a wideband and hook it up. you really can't safely tune a car without one.
second thing I would do reduce the timing in the 180-200 areas and rescale from 6500 to 11000 in those same load cells, your timing jumps around a bit.
I have a wideband in my car. I just wanted to confirm my next steps.
Originally Posted by SophieSleeps
A friend of mine self-tuned his car and I datalogged it for him and got some interesting results.
I have a datalog included below of what I consider the pertinent info.
I have a pic of his fuel and timing maps (high octane)
I'm curious to see what y'all would do to change his tune.
Since he doesn't have a wideband, my initial thoughts are to decriment his fuel values at the LoadCalc values where there is knock.
And then to retard some timing (decriment values) as a safeguard.
Suggestions?

I have a datalog included below of what I consider the pertinent info.
I have a pic of his fuel and timing maps (high octane)
I'm curious to see what y'all would do to change his tune.
Since he doesn't have a wideband, my initial thoughts are to decriment his fuel values at the LoadCalc values where there is knock.
And then to retard some timing (decriment values) as a safeguard.
Suggestions?

Originally Posted by jonas001
The knock isnt caused by a rediculiously high timing curve. i would guess you are running lean or less likely but possibly you got a bad tank of gas or false knock due to a 3 inch dp wacking your transfer case or something similar.
AFR's are 11.5 consistently until 6k rpm when it drops to 11.2
Factory downpipe. I only have a test pipe as an exhaust change.
Here is ADD version of IDC for IPW:
6000RPM = 0.0001666MPR (minutes per rotation) = 0.01 s per rotation * 2(intake and power stroke) = 0.02 s window to drink
Now I have a question, how long do injectors last, and what will happen with IPW if a injector starts failing?
6000RPM = 0.0001666MPR (minutes per rotation) = 0.01 s per rotation * 2(intake and power stroke) = 0.02 s window to drink
Now I have a question, how long do injectors last, and what will happen with IPW if a injector starts failing?
Last edited by C6C6CH3vo; Nov 8, 2006 at 07:55 PM.
Sophie, agree with the others regarding adjusting your friends fuel map first. Regarding your question on how much to adjust, it is trial and errror. I would suggest richening it up .1 or .2 in the areas that are hitting higher knock and .1 in the areas with a little knock. Looking at the OCtane flag the ECU is only worried about the higher RPM values because that is where the value is decreasing from 100.
That is not much knock at all less than 10 knock sum is not bad I say follow fixem2's advice and richen it up slightly. But at less than 10 knock sum it's nothing to be worried about.
Originally Posted by 3gturbo
That is not much knock at all less than 10 knock sum is not bad I say follow fixem2's advice and richen it up slightly. But at less than 10 knock sum it's nothing to be worried about.
Originally Posted by NIevo
What? Anything more then 3 or 4 is bad.
Last edited by 3gturbo; Nov 26, 2006 at 05:49 AM.
This is going to be one of those "Debates" that have no definitive results..
Tune for the lowest knock count you possibly can, although counts of 10 aren't really something to be overly concerned about, the ECU is going to react to knock counts by pulling timing, and over several sustained instances, shifting the octane number.
So ultimately the most power to be had is at that threshold of knock, getting higher knock counts will ultimately result in lower power output as a product of the ECU's protection.
Therefore, tune with an attempt to reduce or eliminate knock if at all possible, but don't get alarmed if you do see knock counts thinking your going to break something. Knock is certainly bad, and seeing sustained knock for long periods of time are bad for the engine, it would take some serious knock event to do immediate damage.
Therefore both of the points are absolutely correct..
Tune for the lowest knock count you possibly can, although counts of 10 aren't really something to be overly concerned about, the ECU is going to react to knock counts by pulling timing, and over several sustained instances, shifting the octane number.
So ultimately the most power to be had is at that threshold of knock, getting higher knock counts will ultimately result in lower power output as a product of the ECU's protection.
Therefore, tune with an attempt to reduce or eliminate knock if at all possible, but don't get alarmed if you do see knock counts thinking your going to break something. Knock is certainly bad, and seeing sustained knock for long periods of time are bad for the engine, it would take some serious knock event to do immediate damage.
Therefore both of the points are absolutely correct..



