ecuflash maf translating?
Nov 4, 2006, 02:33 AM
#1
ecuflash maf translating?
this questions is probably more directed towards mj...
is this possible? basically recalibrating the table? it'd be nice to not have to use a maf trans then again it depends on how minimalistic of a maf trans you can find.
is this possible? basically recalibrating the table? it'd be nice to not have to use a maf trans then again it depends on how minimalistic of a maf trans you can find.
Nov 4, 2006, 06:32 AM
#2
Technically, yes its possible.. Especially with the GM sensor which outputs a square wave signal in KHZ similar to the HZ output of the stock one..
There are a few complications to doing it in the ECU, the first is the counters may not be able to handle values that high.... YET..
I am at the moment swapping out my old Karmann converter, and putting a GM sensor to replace the Ford sensor.. Initially this will be driven by the ECU+.
To be completely honest, I don't think this will be possible with just using the stock Rom, however as the roms are disassembled more, and documented, I'm sure someone (probably myself) would modify the code to be able to do it.
The advantage of a Hot wire sensor is the value in the sensor itself is the air mass, and doesnt require any additional calculations or sensors to take air volume and air pressure, temp, and convert it to air density (air mass) since the hot wire reads the cooling affect the air has on the wire.. the denser the air, the more heat it absorbs, the faster it flows the more heat it absorbs, so it reads accordingly.
One glitch I see is the baro sensor, most translators don't require it, but I recommend using it if you live in the northeast since it helps the ECU compensate for really cold days, but it works fine without it.. In fact, I found on my car that disconnecting my old sensor and replacing it with a potentiometer resulted in the car running better with the unit I was using. The main area of concern would be very high altitude areas, where if you did not compensate for air pressure, the ECU Load would read alot lower, and therefore tuning to compensate for it would have to be done in the tables themselves at lower load cells.
The only thing I am hesitant about is failures.. although a GM MAF is a dime a dozen so swapping it is no problem, I like the ability that I have to put a stock MAF back on when its necessary.
Okay.. so the short answer..
1) No its not possible at this time, only because nobody has done the R&D
2) Yes it will be possible using a GM sensor since the output is somewhat compatible
3) It might even be possible using a Ford sensor with patched code to handle an analog signal instead of a digital signal.
4) More has to be researched on some of the code in the ECU, and there needs to be more work done on understanding the OBD-II and CEL Code tables to compensate for missing or altered sensors, also we need to find calibration tables for the other sensors that we would be removing or altering.
There are a few complications to doing it in the ECU, the first is the counters may not be able to handle values that high.... YET..
I am at the moment swapping out my old Karmann converter, and putting a GM sensor to replace the Ford sensor.. Initially this will be driven by the ECU+.
To be completely honest, I don't think this will be possible with just using the stock Rom, however as the roms are disassembled more, and documented, I'm sure someone (probably myself) would modify the code to be able to do it.
The advantage of a Hot wire sensor is the value in the sensor itself is the air mass, and doesnt require any additional calculations or sensors to take air volume and air pressure, temp, and convert it to air density (air mass) since the hot wire reads the cooling affect the air has on the wire.. the denser the air, the more heat it absorbs, the faster it flows the more heat it absorbs, so it reads accordingly.
One glitch I see is the baro sensor, most translators don't require it, but I recommend using it if you live in the northeast since it helps the ECU compensate for really cold days, but it works fine without it.. In fact, I found on my car that disconnecting my old sensor and replacing it with a potentiometer resulted in the car running better with the unit I was using. The main area of concern would be very high altitude areas, where if you did not compensate for air pressure, the ECU Load would read alot lower, and therefore tuning to compensate for it would have to be done in the tables themselves at lower load cells.
The only thing I am hesitant about is failures.. although a GM MAF is a dime a dozen so swapping it is no problem, I like the ability that I have to put a stock MAF back on when its necessary.
Okay.. so the short answer..
1) No its not possible at this time, only because nobody has done the R&D
2) Yes it will be possible using a GM sensor since the output is somewhat compatible
3) It might even be possible using a Ford sensor with patched code to handle an analog signal instead of a digital signal.
4) More has to be researched on some of the code in the ECU, and there needs to be more work done on understanding the OBD-II and CEL Code tables to compensate for missing or altered sensors, also we need to find calibration tables for the other sensors that we would be removing or altering.
Last edited by MalibuJack; Nov 4, 2006 at 06:36 AM.
Nov 4, 2006, 03:26 PM
#3
omg this is GREAT! so one more confussion clear up... running the gm sensor with ecu+ still gives these altitude complications? i guess i'm asking if the ecu+ patches in the gm sensor signal and hence you don't have to worry about the ecu's other natural tendancies.
Nov 4, 2006, 05:16 PM
#4
Well, in reality the GM sensor already compensates for altitude and temp.. Any translator (except for the one I am currently using, but will be replacing) fixes the barometric sensor, and some fix the AIT sensor value. But the reality is, both the Ford and GM sensor already are able to calculate air mass from the sensor itself, and requires very little modification to the signal to do it, hence those sensors aren't really needed.
The complication is the Evo ECU does have a barometric compensation table, which is supposed to stabilize the load values, and make them consistent at different altitudes.. By removing that sensor, if you have a large change in altitude, you'll have a change in calculated load.. For instance, if you get a load of 260 at sea level, it can very well be 220 or 240 at altitude.. So the tune has to be altered accordingly.
Its really not a huge issue with open loop maps, but in closed loop, the fuel trims could get forced higher or lower than optimum when its trying to compensate for the changes. Normally its not a problem unless the car hits the maximum range of adjustment.
The complication is the Evo ECU does have a barometric compensation table, which is supposed to stabilize the load values, and make them consistent at different altitudes.. By removing that sensor, if you have a large change in altitude, you'll have a change in calculated load.. For instance, if you get a load of 260 at sea level, it can very well be 220 or 240 at altitude.. So the tune has to be altered accordingly.
Its really not a huge issue with open loop maps, but in closed loop, the fuel trims could get forced higher or lower than optimum when its trying to compensate for the changes. Normally its not a problem unless the car hits the maximum range of adjustment.
Nov 4, 2006, 05:18 PM
#5
FWIW the DSM's and Nissan guys have been doing this swap for years and not had really any problems, its really that our ECU is capable of compensating accordingly if those sensors are utilized in a particular manner, which is slightly different than how you'd compensate for the changes using the MAF alone.
