Before the flaming commences I am not posting this cause I want to screw over anybody out there trying to make a buck at tuning. I am posting this because there are many of us with the aptitude and desire to learn to tune our own vehicles. I am willing to pay for a tune to learn a few things, but it seems like there are so many of us that have a common goal that maybe we could share some information and learn from each other like what works and what doesnt.

I search and search and read posts for hours and all I learn is how to use the software and intrepret the values in the tables, but not what can be done with them and what the effect would be. I understand engines and their fundamentals, I learned the hard way. I'd like to learn to tune these things for myself and I would be willing to share what I learn with others that want to learn as well.

So why not share the knowledge beyond how to use the software and cable? Why not share some roms and associated data logging?

 

I completly agree. I have read many posts on the software and such, but want to know a lot more. Like if I add an exhaust, what should i look for in my log, what should i change on my tune. I dont mind paying a tuner to send me a map, but I would really like to learn a lot more about it myself.

 

people who know how these things work fall into three categories:

1) People who get paid to do it (tuners)

2) People who have taught themselves and expect you to do the same

3) People who have taught themselves and feel that if you cant figure it out yourself you shouldn't be meddling with it anyway.


So while i agree with you that its sometimes frustrating to figure anything out through all the techno-gadgetry going on here, i doubt anyones going to write you a "Tuning your car "for dummies"" book anytime soon.

 

Well thanks for your input but I am not looking for a HOW to tune your car for DUMMIES instruction. I am simply seeing if anyone else is interested in sharing information for the greater good. If your not, thats fine, I'll struggle through it and figure it out, but why be against sharing what you have learned with others? If thats the case why even browse the forums? I had no idea there was such a secret competition goping on here. I thought these were here to share information and knowledge. Maybe I am wrong? I am more than willing to share my ROMs and Logs and experience as I learn if it helps someone else learn things the right way. I learned how to build engines the wrong way and made many mistakes that should have been avoided and it cost me time and money. Now I feel very confident in building engines and wiring up fuel injection, but without access to the code for the engine controller and knowing exactly what effects what I am shooting in the dark. I do have knowledge of EFI systems so many things are obvious, but many others are not obvious what the result will be. I will do it, I don't have a problem with it, but it seems if we shared experiences and knowledge that process could be avoided or atleast severly reduced.

Why not share "Hey I have insert mod here and I did this to my tune and this was the result"

seems we could all win by learning from that persons experience or by saying "oh thats good but I did this and here is what my result was, I think my way is running a little better"

Or just posting up a ROM and saying here is my rom, here are my performance stats, here is the fuel economy, here is my log..... that gives others a comparison point.

 

I agree. I am happy to share any info or answer any questions anyone may have to the best of my knowledge. There are a few on here that will do the same and a few who will not.

At the very least, I can try and answer a question and if i'm way off, someone will pipe up and set me straight, i'm sure.

The biggest thing that i have noticed for my IX is tuning the Mivec. It was the difference between 251 hp and 274 hp when my car was bone stock. I'll attach that map to this post. I used a JDM map with US fuel, but JDM timing, so it may be a little aggressive (also another reason it made good power, not just mivec).

Anyway, I have another map that I made this week on the dyno, based on a JDM map that made good power, but i was still farting with the timing, especially up top, so I wouldn't use it as the timing is way off (had some phantom knock that I didn't fix until after the dyno). The mivec also needs some lovin' up top, but it is what it is.

Anyway, like i said, i'll answer any questions out there. I love to add value to the forum, and we all learned how to tune somehow, it cost me a motor in my honda, and hopefully we can help someone else avoid that pain.

My car stock, 274hp
My map from this week's dyno
Or could be this one, can't remember

 

The maps themselves have very little educational value, the best way to learn is to read the information you have already gotten, and apply it to your stock map.

Most of the time sharing maps just leads to someone *****ing about it being a tuner map (most of the time it isn't though)

But honestly, maps have very little value as they don't provide the kind of example as to *WHY* things were done, which is more important than the end result.

 

Not to mention more often than not, someone just takes a map and puts it on their car, then later (after realizing it doesn't work right on their car) they ask how to fix it..

 

Jack is probably right, but i posted those up anyway.

They are at least a good reference, but your stock mapping probably has at least the same info. For light mods on our cars with stock injectors and turbos, its really just a massage to the maps, and nothing totally radical, imo.

 

Which is why I didn't jsut say maps, but I also said logs and an explanation of things. Then comparing the maps would explain a lot with the additional information.

Maybe I am wrong, but it seems to me with the list of mods, the map, the logs and a small explanation a person could learn a whole lot from one tune. And sharing info as to what worked and what didn't work.

Thats like the rest of the world thought, lets make laws to pass that make up peoples minds for them so the stupid people won't have to think. No matter what you do your gonna have to deal with the fawktards, so just ignore them. They download and flash of their own free will. If they want to fawk things up without understanding then fine by me.

You don't even have to put your maps up if your affraid of that, just explain what you did and the result? I mean there is very little info out there for people new to programming to learn from other than just tweaking settings and potentially ruining an engine. I have toasted one piston from running too lean before, and thats not a quick fix.

I don't know. Maybe I am asking in the wrong place.

 

This is very true. There is almost nothing to be learned by comparing maps without understanding what the changes are doing to the tune.

There is a a huge collection of knowledge on this forum, that you should always search first before attempting to tweak your maps.

 

I disagree with almost nothing. There comes a point, once you have grasped the basic concepts, that it helps to see maps that are different, with a basic explanation of how the car is performing, where it helps to see what the maps look like.

We're not talking noob education here. Seeing is learning for me, perhaps not you, which is fine, everyone learns differently.

 

"Sharing is caring"

Sorry for those of you older than the Barney generation

 

"I love you, you love me" lol . I vote for "a tuning for dummies" Thread.

 

Most people share their tuning knowledge in this forum, as far as I can tell. I just don't think anyone has the time to write a complete tuning guide at this time.

I would suggest simply posting specific questions in different threads and I'm sure there will be answers. Tuning isn't rocket science, but you do generally have to know what you're doing.

This is what I would recommend:

1. Get a grasp on fuel trims, how they work, and closed loop operation. This will give you all the information that you need to tune for injectors and the 'drivability' of your car. This will also enable a smooth transition to open loop (WOT tuning). There have been plenty of threads on this topic.

2. Log, log, and then log some more. You can't do anything if you don't log and see what's going on. Try to get a wideband and map sensor that you can also include in your logs. This will help you tune your afr curve better.

3. Always log knock. Basically, you are trying to tune for maximum power with the least amount of knock. At least for WOT tuning. Partial throttle tuning is another ballgame altogether, but most 'tuning' questions revolve around WOT tuning.

4. The three major tuning parameters we have is timing, open-loop fueling and boost. More timing is generally more power (up to MBT), less fuel is generally more power (to about 12.5:1, which is max rich power for gasoline), and more boost is generally more power (depending on the efficiency of your turbo, intercooler, etc). It is up to you to find the magic combination that is right for your car and your modifications.


So, just using this general information, this is what I would do to start 'tuning' for WOT at least.

- Go to a dyno or a nice open road where there is no traffic and you don't risk getting a ticket. Do a pull, maybe a full third gear pull from 2000 RPM to redline. Log the pull. Include wideband, boost, timing, RPM, and knock, at a minimum. You can also log more parameters for calculated load, or just use your timing and RPM numbers to decipher load cells after the fact. Or for the more advanced people, you can log your two-byte load. (You have to search for this one)

- First, look at your knock. Make sure you don't have any large amounts at first? If so, at what RPM. Your ECU should be pulling roughly 1 degree of timing for every 3 knock counts. So, if you have 6 counts of knock at 5000RPM and your timing is 6 degrees, then go look at your high octane timing map in ECUFlash and go look at your 5000 RPM row and look for a timing of 8*. That is the load cell that you are in. Do this for more points to 'trace' your pull through your timing and then fuel maps. This will let you know what load and what cells you are running through. To get rid of knock, you generally have to do one of three things...lower boost, lower timing, or increase fuel. I personally like to decrease timing to get rid of knock. Once you have any major knock out of the way, then you can start altering your fueling, timing, and boost.

- I do fueling first. Look at your AFR curve. This is my opinion, but I like to get my AFR at the richest point that it is going to be right before max boost. For example, if I want 11:1 on pump gas, I am going to tune the fuel cells right at and before the boost maximum to get me to 11:1. Then I continue this 11:1 to redline. Others like to be leaner earlier, like 12:1, but not me. I generally tune to 11:1 or in that range on pump gas right from max boost all the way to redline....a nice flat line.

- Now, since fueling is done, you have two more variables....boost and timing. What you do with this really depends on what turbo and IC you are running. Boost levels largely depend on the compressor efficiency of the turbo, cooling efficiency of your IC and volumetric efficiency of your entire setup. Again, you will have to experiment for yourself, but if you look around, for the stock turbo a lot of people are running in the 20-22 psi range on pump, maybe tapering to about 18 at redline. Set your boost to this level and log again. Is there any knock? If so, use your timing to get rid of it.

- Now, you just have one thing left, timing. Your fuel is at a flat 11:1, your boost is set to 22-18 or whatever. So, now, start increasing your timing a little by little until you see some knock. Now find what cell you are in for that timing and RPM number. You have found the limit of timing that you can run for that AFR and boost level in that load cell. Maybe back off 1-2 degrees. Do this same thing over and over until you have the most timing at every RPM load that you can run without any knock. Always back off a degree or two for a safe, conservative tune. If you are only doing third gear pulls to tune, for example, then if you go drag race, and do 1-4 to redline, then your third gear tune may need to be 'de-tuned' a bit becuase it will knock during the 1-4 pull, especially in 4th. Lowering the timing from your third gear pull is this 'detuning'. Exactly how much depends on exactly what you will be using your car for. Just log, log, log, and you will get used to it and what you have to adjust.


So, there's a 10,000 foot view of how to start some general WOT tuning. Just try to get used to logging and reading your logs. Then you must learn how to trace your logs into your fuel and timing maps. Use RPM and timing numbers to find the load that you cells that you are running in. Then you will know what cells you are in for your timing and fuel maps. One thing I forgot to mention above is 'How do I know that my tuning changes are working or making more power?' Well, that is pretty simple, too. Look at your logs and the time it takes to go from a certain RPM to a certain RPM, say 4500-7500. If that time is decreasing, then your power is increasing. You can also use tools like Data Log Lab to show a dyno comparison from one run to the next.

And also, another good point is that what is good for someone else's car may not necessarily be good for yours. But, you can always 'experiment' safely as long as you monitor knock. Maybe you want to try for 12:1 on pump gas. Well, go ahead, but not with the same timing and boost that you tuned for 11:1 with. Either lower your timing overall or your boost, then tune for 12:1, with no knock. Look at acceleration comparisons (time for RPM to RPM) from your 12:1 tune and your 11:1 tune. Which is better? As you can see by now, there are a million possibilites....it's up to you to find out which works best for your car and your mods.

This is all very general information and just used ceratin numbers for examples. All of these are variables, which you have to tune for yourself and your own car. But, as long as you log knock and minimize or eliminate it, at least you will be safe and don't have to worry about breaking anything. Just take it slow and don't go too crazy all at once. It will take a while to get a full proper tune. When you are done with WOT tuning, then you can concentrate your efforts on part throttle and transitions to WOT.


Eric

 

Excellent precis! Thanks Eric!