Number 1, I'm not new here.

Number 2, The original poster is in FL...they run 93 there don't they?

Number 3, On 93 octane on the stock turbo, you should see ~10 degrees at peak boost rising to ~20 at redline. With a proper fuel mix (11.5s) this will not knock, unless there is something else going on.


I just looked at his map, and honestly it looks like the 10 other maps I've seen for those mods, and the fact that the car knocks straight across the board with a normal map like that makes me think that there is something wrong with it.

The test though, would be to put the stock timing map in it, and run it and see if it knocks, that wouldn't be hard at all to do. I'm not sure that we can't rule out bad gas, as I don't know what water would do to the AFR's....so there is another idea to think about.

The other idea might be that the car has a signifigant boost leak, and the turbo is being severely overspooled to maintain what ever boost he has set on the MBC and thus making for some seriously hot air.....all of these things are possible.

As for the flash....it's normal, if you say it isnt you havent looked at many maps.

 

Hey buddy, here's something for you to ponder...normally you're in the process of tuning a car when it's on a dyno correct? Yeah, we were leaning the car out and it was still fat, I don't put my car on the dyno for some sort of bragging rights, we were dialing it in....sometimes you see AFR's you don't want to see on the dyno.

 

Its normal on a Dynoflash map to see large blocks of timing rather than a curve, it doesnt mean thats the correct way to do it.

You have a very valid point about boost leaks I didnt take that into consideration at first. Bad fuel could do it as well this is true. The point is you can look at the log and see if the car wants timing at X becuase of knock timing pull, maybe start by dropping timing to X. It doesnt help when this car is as rich as it is.

Walbro pumps usually only become noticeable in tuning from 5K or so up when the stock pump would start to taper off. It probably isnt helping either if the original tuner didnt take this into account.

 

Yea, already have a Walbro installed and yes 93 octane only. Is it possible its a bad fuel pump? I already checked for boost leaks, but I can check again.

 

I had to find out for myself, just because you have zero knock does not mean that you can advance spark.

I started off 8 months ago with 7 at peak load going up to 22 at times on redline - It wasn't knocking. Hell, it was just a tune I purchased a while ago before I used alcohol making it a great place to start my tuning experience (so I thought). Eventually from experience I needed to know exactly where I quit making power seen with X Y scatter rpm vs time so I pulled timing to a stock map but with rescaled load.

At 24 psi and alcohol, 4 degrees at peak load and 18 degrees at 7000rpm is where my car quits responding mechanically to timing advance. Now I know why my fastest pulls in the past had counts at peak where the ECU pulled a little timing.

Excess timing also makes the WB read leaner than actual mix ratio (pushes the reaction changing the balance CO, CO2, NOx, H2O and so forth) so you end up adding fuel to put AFR at target but in reality your just cooling bubba combustion, probably with ratio (wt:wt) of air to fuel. Pull timing and watch the WB read lower - reads lower because the WB is reading a more balanced burn and giving a more accurated calculation to the wt/wt relationship of air and fuel thats feeding combustion

 

Goodness gracious IX's have been pretty close to 11.8 seconds with stock timing

 

Ok your point? the IX and the VIII arent comparable at all as we've seen. The IX is also making close to 350whp with just exhaust, mbc, and a tune. I saw 300whp with those mods.

Trying to use my videos or my horrid driving to disprove my points is pretty pathetic.

 

I don't agree at all, just because it looks like 10 other maps doesn't mean that those maps arn't cr@p as well. Have you got any logs to back up your claim that an 8 on pump can run 10 deg advance at peak torque with no knock? If you look at a JDM map for a 7 or 8 you will see that it is no where near as aggressive as the map here, and they will knock on UK 98 RON. There is a balance between boost and timing for good power but riding the knock control is not the way to do it.

MB

 

Well put. Just because the majority of the map used by Evom members come from dynoflash or Jestr and run 8-10* timing @ peak boost, does not make them good maps. Those who have logged these maps have already pointed out several times that they knock. Those that have not logged these maps say they are great. Who are you going to believe?

I would like to see a log from 4TUN8's car with the timing map he posted and an AFR of 11.5:1 (like he said he is running) and zero knock on pump 93 octane gas ONLY. No meth, no alky. I am willing to believe him, I just want to see some evidence.

Here is my log of the above DLL power curve. I am providing my evidence. 4TUN8, please provide us with yours. The timing is the "xedetim" column. Peak timing is set @ 1* and max timing is 15-16*. AFR peaks @ 11.4 and taper to 11 @ 7K. The car still managed to put down 312 hp on DLL.

 

oh i don't run the map I posted on 93 only, I guess I should have worded that better, but I did run 10 degrees at peak boost and 20 at redline on 93 only when I was on the stock turbo and when I upgraded to the 20g on pump.

I don't have the logs from 18 months ago when I was stock, but I have some of the 20g on pump I think, I might have deleated those as well.

As far as Jestr and Dynoflash tunes are conserned....I can only speak for the Dynoflash maps that I've seen. It seems that Dynoflash goes REAL conservative on timing, and relies heavily on fuel changes to make power, atleast that's how his mail in flash looked for a bolt on evo that I was playing with.

 

Well thanks for confusing the OP. The guy is a newb and seeking help on his tune. Yet you omit to tell him that the ignition map you posted is NOT for 93 pump gas. You probably run it on race gas or Alky. So what gas do you use with that map?

I have not seen those. All the dynoflash maps that I have seen have rows of 8888888888 @ peak boost/torque. That is hardly conservative.

 

We are pretty conservative with the type of fuels we use in the UK, there are only a few weirdos, one lives in Scotland, who mix meth into the fuel for their daily driver. Still I think we can excuse jscbanks a little eccentricity when it comes to toping off the tanks.

A bunch of 888888888s is obviously a better tune than a bunch of 7777777s. I think poker is still a popular card game in the US? If you are in any doubt, that timing map is @rse.

MB

 

8 degrees would be fine at peak boost on 93 octane.


Your log however looks god aweful, is 91 really that bad? No wonder you're not breaking 300hp.

 

 

Only if you like using the ECU to control knock. Your comments run contrary to all other info.

MB