I've spoken up before about excessive tuning on mail in flashes. One owner that was initially upset that I criticised thought again when he got knock sums of 18 in his logs on a mail in tune.

 

Did you not see the chart that I posted above. Not the link in my signature, but the DLL chart. It reads 312 hp with this conservative approach to timing.

The link in my signature was when the car was "tooned" by a "tooner" that I thought was top notch. When I logged my car later on it had 10 counts of knock. That was on 91 octane.

You need to read before you post. I already mentioned that the car runs on 93 octane and I run very conservative timing of 1-3* @ peak depending on the load and 16 max by cutoff. And there are only 1 knock counts here and there.

Here is the full log as displayed in DLL with the power curve. What is so god awfull? What is so bad about producing almost 300 lb/ft with 2.6* of timing, almost 21 psi, and 11.3 afr? What is so bad about putting 312 hp @ 7.3* of timing, 19 psi and 11 afr?



I find it amazing that you walk into this forum with misinformation, post a timing table that DOES NOT use pump gas, refuse to tell us what gas you use, claim that your AFR is 11.5:1 when your video shows 10:1.

You have no evidence to prove anything that you say.

 

You might also want to read 4TUN8s comments about the restrictor between the T and BCS in this thread, post #9.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...88#post4074888

Now someone with 1900 posts should know better, maybe 1896 were about DVs.

MB

 

I didn't claim to know anything in my post as fact, and even eluded to the fact that I didn't know about it. What is so wrong with that? I used the BCS for about 2 weeks before I got a manual boost controller which does not use the restrictor pill. I remember reading various posts where cars had MBC's in them, and had been sold or what not and were not boosting properly, I thought I remembered reading that they boosted low, but I figured I was wrong, hence why I asked "Is there something that I don't know about?"

You're taking a dyno run from a dynojet with unknown conditions (humidity, air temp, elevation, etc) and comparing it to a data log dyno pull and trying to play it off as gospel? You have proved nothing, I'm sorry if that upsets you.

I posted my timing table in jest....like a "if you think that's crazy, look at this!" type of thing, but apparently you're very uptight, and later I appologized if it seemed misleading, which after I read it the next day it did. The fact remains that
this guys timing is not out of the ordinary, nor is it overly aggressive, it looks like a basic flash.

To top all of this off, neither you nor burgers has contributed ANYTHING to help this individual, other then blaming his tuner when there is obviously something wrong with the car.

Why don't you guys stop trying to find ways to attack me, and actually try to find a way to help?

And btw, I run 93 octane with methanol, I wasnt trying to hide that fact, the timing map that i showed was for 22psi (can't run higher currently due to a maxed out fuel system) that was tuned completely by me. The map still needs touches to partial throttle, but is very solid 11.2-11.0 in 3rd gear and a perfect 11.5-11.7 in 4th gear.

 

You really need to read before you hit the reply button.

First, I did NOT mention the dynojet chart in my signature, YOU did. I was talking about the 93 octane map that I currently run. This map has conservative timing and 11.4-11:1 AFR. Forget about the chart in my signature, it is old and I have to remove it, but I have been lazy. My mistake. Focus on the log and the last chart that I posted and tell me why it is "God Awfull." Please tell me. I am waiting.

You are wrong. 10-8* of timing @ peak boost/torque will trigger knock on pump gas MOST of the time. You can get an occasional clean run, but there will be knock in most other runs. On a TBE car the safe timing is about 3* @ peak boost/torque.

 

I don't like the dataloglab dyno pull, if you want to use your own car as an example have it dyno'd.....the simple fact that torque and hp don't cross over at 5252 makes me think something is fishy.

Dyno the car on a real dyno, and then come back with this arguement. This post is already way off topic, why don't you try actually helping this guy? The fact remains that his car is broke and he needs help.


Here you go though, the Y axis where the cursor is shows my timing curve....yeah the curve isnt as great as I have it now, but this was one of the first pulls that I had ever done, and was some of the first lessons I learned tuning. As you can see knock voltage is well below 1.25v, and the RPM is around 4000, which would be pretty close to full boost, and as you can see, this is 10 degrees.

1.25v of knock voltage would probably indicate 0 knock sum, although I have no facts to back that up, I used to set my knock threshold at 2.5 volts or something like that (honestly cant remember).

 

Torque and Horsepower will always crossover at 5250 assuming your not measuring vehicle/drum speed

Ahh damn, jumped in and replied before I read everything.. I'm not contributing anything useful, sorry.

 

Wrong again. They cross @ 5210 actually due to the slight bit of smoothing of the rpm trace.

Here is the the log with the cursor (white sqauare) placed @ 5210. Look at the check box with rpm to the left. What does it say? 5210



[/quote]

 

I'm done responding, you can think I'm a newb, that's fine.

 

The problem with that ECU+ log, is that it doesn't show you at WOT in a high load cell, the timing curve suggests you are on and off the throttle, you could easily be running in a cell with 10 deg advance if not at WOT in a high load cell, that doesn't mean it's OK to tune to that figure in all load cells does it?

My comment about the BCS restrictor, was meant to illustrate that, though your happy to argue about timing on an Evo, you don't seem to know about other areas of the car, in itself thats fine, because there are always areas where knowledge can be improved, however, the topic of boost control has been very well discussed here so the implication is, that you haven't spent that much time reading those topics, so have you spent much time reading posts about timing, a subject on which you have much to say.

MB

 

Unlike most people I only talk about things I've personally done. Do I really need to show the part of the log that shows my TPS sensor at 100% or can you just take my word for it?

 

You don't have to post the WOT part, the point is, the screenie you showed to confirm +10 at 4000, is not at WOT and it can't be confirmed what load cell you are in. You could be in a load cell for 180 load, and on a stock map that would get you +10, that is not the same as +10 in a 240 load cell.

If you've run +10 at 240 load, on pump on an 8, with stock cams and compression, with no knock, that's great. How come no one else here can do that?

MB

 

Keep in mind that the knock voltage detection system of ECU+ is not that good. I have a knock buffer (Vishnu's knock voltage detection system) and while the voltage spikes overlap with the Knock Conuts in the mid-upper rpm range, at the lower rpm the knock biffer does NOT detect what the Knock Sum shows.

I have multiple logs of 3-4 counts @ peak torque/boost with the knock buffer voltage not moving at all.

What you have posted is not that strong as far as evidence is concerned.

 

I have found the ECU+ to be pretty good at identifying knock, but it is not just the amplitude of the spike, it's the shape as well, knock looks like a kind of double spike with a small trough between each peak, each peak being in quick succession.

MVB

 

I also wanted to add, in some recent logs of mine I've noticed knock counts occuring at 2500 but in ECU+ the log didn't show any knock. These small knocks occuring at 2500 rpm I heard are usually false. So the ECU+ did a good job of noticing the falseness.