po300 "fix" ?
Jun 12, 2007, 07:49 PM
#16
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Bringing this one back from the dead,
Interesting comment about the Idle stepper table.... Mine is certainly off since I installed my cams. The car idles high and you can see the stepper values decrease until the idle matches the target idle.
I have to get my inspection done this month and they just do an OBD-II test here in Ga. So I'm up poop creek until I get my p0300 problem sorted out.
I may have to go to the stealer and get the latest p0300 flash then transfer my tune over to the new base map......
My code is being set at idle right around 980 rpm's today anyway. I'm gonna try bumping the timing a little more, and adjusting the ISCV table down so it does not hunt as much at idle.
Interesting comment about the Idle stepper table.... Mine is certainly off since I installed my cams. The car idles high and you can see the stepper values decrease until the idle matches the target idle.
I have to get my inspection done this month and they just do an OBD-II test here in Ga. So I'm up poop creek until I get my p0300 problem sorted out.
I may have to go to the stealer and get the latest p0300 flash then transfer my tune over to the new base map......
My code is being set at idle right around 980 rpm's today anyway. I'm gonna try bumping the timing a little more, and adjusting the ISCV table down so it does not hunt as much at idle.
Jun 13, 2007, 07:35 AM
#18
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Will do,
Tom has my 2029 silverbox this week for the 2.10 hardware updates. I'm running out of time to get this sorted. As soon as the plus makes it's way back I'm gonna plug it in and see if the codes go away.
In the mean time, I have bumped the idle timing up to 10 - 12 degrees, so 0-40 load 0-1250 rpm is set between 10* and 12*. This did not do jack, flashed it in last night and the pending code was already set this AM when I got to work. Freeze frame data said rpm was 10?? speed was 1 mph load was around 20.
Tom has my 2029 silverbox this week for the 2.10 hardware updates. I'm running out of time to get this sorted. As soon as the plus makes it's way back I'm gonna plug it in and see if the codes go away.
In the mean time, I have bumped the idle timing up to 10 - 12 degrees, so 0-40 load 0-1250 rpm is set between 10* and 12*. This did not do jack, flashed it in last night and the pending code was already set this AM when I got to work. Freeze frame data said rpm was 10?? speed was 1 mph load was around 20.
Jun 13, 2007, 08:49 AM
#19
you sound to be having the same problems. Tome sent me some beta firmware/software which I plugged in last night... to no avail. My car hates me.
At/near idle if I have 12-14 degrees timing I get a good idle and great vaccuum, but no help on the P0300, as a matter of a fact I believe that increased timing tends to make it pop up more often.
Oh, mine has the hardware updates already too..... not lookin good. So keep me posted.
At/near idle if I have 12-14 degrees timing I get a good idle and great vaccuum, but no help on the P0300, as a matter of a fact I believe that increased timing tends to make it pop up more often.
Oh, mine has the hardware updates already too..... not lookin good. So keep me posted.
Jun 17, 2007, 10:47 AM
#20
I know this thread is old, but it is somehow helping me solve my p0300 problems at idle. When I used to have an aggressive timing at idle my car idle a lot better w/gsc 272/272 cams. However; it sets the p0300. I back the timing down to 7degrees @0 load to 0-1000 rpm and 8degress at 10-40 load @ 0-1000rpm. So far no p0300 after driving 150miles when usually my p0300 goes off at idle or driving for about 50 miles. My car also have the latest p0300 reflash that eliminated the p0300 2 years ago, overtime with more mods the p0300 came back. I'm hoping my p0300 problems is merely cause by an aggressive timing at idle. I will keep you guys posted.......
Jun 17, 2007, 05:26 PM
#21
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I have some more thoughts on the p0300. I always seem to get it at idle (based on freeze frame data, not when the light pops on). Important to note, the light will not come on until the drive cycle is complete. The code can be set at anytime during the drive cycle, but the light will not ses light will not set until the drive cycle is complete.
Nothing I have tried yet has helped. So far i have:
Increased timing at idle 0-40 0-1250 12*
Decreased timing at idle 0-40 0-1250 8*
smoothed timing at idle 0-40 load 0 rpm 8* smooth trannsition to 0-40 load 1250 rpm 12*
Plug variations br8es - bpr7es
cam timing variations, -3-3, -4-1, +1-1, -2-0, -2-1
Rescaled injectors to get fuel trims dead on, zero lean idle, starts up at 14.5 - 15.0 when cold.
Logged everything.
What i have noticed is that my idle rpm always fluctuates. This is from today, smoothest idle to date:
based on what the mitsu manual says, the ecu is looking for changes in rpm without any corresponding changes in tps. I really don't think p0300 has anything to do with knock, other than if timing retard from knock detection causes a change in rpm.
I'm going to look into the possibility that my timing belt tension is not correct. I need to replace the timing belt anyway, so at the same time I may replace the crank angle sensor (it only costs $65).
Does anyone have a rock solid idle rpm that does not bounce up and down a bit? Looking at your tach is not sufficient, I'm looking for logs that show no idle fluctuation.
Nothing I have tried yet has helped. So far i have:
Increased timing at idle 0-40 0-1250 12*
Decreased timing at idle 0-40 0-1250 8*
smoothed timing at idle 0-40 load 0 rpm 8* smooth trannsition to 0-40 load 1250 rpm 12*
Plug variations br8es - bpr7es
cam timing variations, -3-3, -4-1, +1-1, -2-0, -2-1
Rescaled injectors to get fuel trims dead on, zero lean idle, starts up at 14.5 - 15.0 when cold.
Logged everything.
What i have noticed is that my idle rpm always fluctuates. This is from today, smoothest idle to date:
Code:
seconds rpm timing -------------------------- 490.265 1062 10 490.328 1031 13 490.390 1031 11 490.453 1062 9 490.515 1062 10 490.578 1062 10 490.640 1031 13 490.687 1031 13 490.750 1031 10 490.812 1062 9 490.875 1031 9 490.937 1031 10 491.000 1062 10 491.062 1062 10 491.125 1062 10 491.187 1062 10 491.250 1031 10 491.312 1031 10 491.375 1031 9 491.437 1062 9 491.500 1031 13 491.562 1031 9 491.625 1031 9 491.687 1031 9 491.750 1062 9 491.812 1031 9 491.875 1031 13 491.937 1031 13 492.000 1031 9 492.062 1031 10
I'm going to look into the possibility that my timing belt tension is not correct. I need to replace the timing belt anyway, so at the same time I may replace the crank angle sensor (it only costs $65).
Does anyone have a rock solid idle rpm that does not bounce up and down a bit? Looking at your tach is not sufficient, I'm looking for logs that show no idle fluctuation.
Jun 17, 2007, 05:44 PM
#22
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for reference, here is the manual page that explains the code:
Code:
DTC P0300: RANDOMIMULTIPLE CYLINDER MISFIRE DETECTED Random Misfire Circuit • Refer to, DTC P0201 — P0204 Injector Circuit Malfunction P.13A-267. CIRCUIT OPERATION • Refer to, DTC P0201 — P0204 Injector Circuit Malfunction P.13A-267. TECHNICAL DESCRIPTION • If a misfire occurs while the engine is running, the engine speed changes for an instant. • The ECM checks for such changes in engine DTC SET CONDITIONS Check Conditions • Engine speed is between 500 and 7,000 r/min. • Engine coolant temperature is higher than —10°C (14°F). • Intake air temperature is higher than —10°C (14°F). • Barometric pressure is higher than 76 kPa (11 psi). • Volumetric efficiency is between 15 and 160 percent. • Adaptive learning is complete for the vane which generates a crankshaft position signal. • While the engine is running, excluding gear shifting, deceleration, sudden acceleration/deceleration and A/C compressor switching. • The throttle deviation is —0.059 volt/IC ms to +0.059 volt/IC ms. Judgement Criteria (change in the angular acceleration of the crankshaft is used for misfire detection). • Misfire has occurred more frequently than allowed during the last 200 revolutions [when the catalyst temperature is higher than 950°C (1742°F)]. • Misfire has occurred in 15 or more of the last 1,000 revolutions (corresponding to 1 .5 times the limit of emission standard). TROUBLESHOOTING HINTS (The most likely causes for this code to be set are: ) • Ignition system related part(s) failed. • Poor crankshaft position sensor. • Incorrect air/fuel ratio. • Low compression pressure. • Skipping of timing belt teeth. • EGR system and EGR valve • ECM failed.
Jun 17, 2007, 08:03 PM
#23
Just to give you an update I just drove the car pretty hard and doing some logging. To my suprise I still don't have a po300. Like I said before I know you have to complete a drive cycle. But I have driven more than usual when before the cel would come in. P0300 is definitely not a misfire issue, far from being an actual misfire. I have tried all the plugs you can think off before and none showed no improvement.
Jun 18, 2007, 06:24 AM
#24
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Went to the dealer this AM to get the P-0300 Fix reflash. I pulled it out, saved it and put my flash back in.
Interesting thing is the "reflash" now carries an Internal ID of 94170015 rather than my origianl 94170008.
Once i get home I will get it posted and put up a link.
Interesting thing is the "reflash" now carries an Internal ID of 94170015 rather than my origianl 94170008.
Once i get home I will get it posted and put up a link.
Jun 18, 2007, 06:51 AM
#25
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It seems many people get this problem when they try to make a big cammed car idle smooth by adding fuel/timing/rpm. Why not leave it alone and let the car idle like it's supposed to with a cam.
Jun 18, 2007, 07:11 AM
#26
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However, another local here has rasied his idle to 1000 with 280's and no SES light as of yet.
Jun 18, 2007, 07:43 AM
#27
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I could care less about the code cause the car runs strong as hell, except that I have to get my tag renewed and cannot pass an OBDII inspection with a code set. And it sets it every day before the drive cycle completes.
Jun 18, 2007, 09:55 AM
#29
Went to the dealer this AM to get the P-0300 Fix reflash. I pulled it out, saved it and put my flash back in.
Interesting thing is the "reflash" now carries an Internal ID of 94170015 rather than my origianl 94170008.
Once i get home I will get it posted and put up a link.
Interesting thing is the "reflash" now carries an Internal ID of 94170015 rather than my origianl 94170008.
Once i get home I will get it posted and put up a link.
Jun 18, 2007, 03:10 PM
#30
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Though I will not preach this information as gospel, I will share what I believe to be true with the P0300 "fixed flash" as I was a Mitsu tech when the 03 Evo's came out and developed this issue. The first car I had would set a P0300 at 74 MPH, around 25% load. When the P0300 flash came out, the car was fixed for about a month, then came back with freeze frame data showing the code now tripping at 91 mph. According to the tech engineer I was speaking with, this was the exact result from the flash, that it just moved the "sensitive" area up. On that car, we replaced the transmission and I never saw it again for a P0300.
With all of that said, unless something has changed since I left Mitsu, the "fix" flash was never intended to repair a condition at idle.
The reason we are all tripping these codes is the lopey idle. The ECU monitors the cam and crank signals, looking for variations in the waveforms. It interprets these variations as misfires, and if it can determine at what point in the firing order it is occuring, it will set a specific cylinder misfire like the P0304 I am getting. If it cannot determine or if it interprets that there is more than one cylinder misfiring, it will throw the P0300 code.
Misfires are a continuous monitor by the ECU that should be able to be watched with mode $06 data with a scan tool. Trouble is, I have no idea what the range for that data is and at this point I am having some trouble finding it, although I really haven't put that much effort into it. I am hoping if I can locate what the factory parameters are, possibly one of the ECU gurus here can look for some associated code in the ECU that might relate to it. If those parameters could then be changed in the code, I would think it might be able to disable or at least numb the sensitivity of the ECU to avoid setting the code, but this is getting into stuff that I am not informed on, and may very well just be a daydream on my part.
Till that happens though, lumpy cam cars are probably going to have to deal with a misfire code of some sorts.