Think of it like this, you can guess with precision what changes can be made and land near target if you've done this a million times like some tuners have. But except only a small piece of the HP pie of AFR tuning.


Using the NB voltage to tune is useless because it increasingly looses accuracy lean or rich of stoich. The NB sensor just acts like a switch in closed loop by adding or pulling fuel as the 0.45v boundary is crossed. You can see this with a WB in closed loop bouncing between 14.8 and 14.5. Using it to tune would land you faaar from target.

Going this far without buying a WB is a waste of time

 

Friends dont let friend narrowband tune.....

....Narrowband tuning FTL!

 

Interesting point by the innovator of the 2byte load parameter. An opinion within the thread of "wanna-be tooners" that actually matters.

Thanks for the input Banks...

 

I'm not even a wannabe tuner but I'll have to admit LWLogs are much less cluttered without the twobytes after I quit relying on them.

They were indeed very cool and an excellent tool to learn my car's MAF/ecu characteristics and make a nice display for presenting graphical crap with comparative studies but the differences vary greatly from car to car.

I once rotated the MAF about 40 degrees to clean up some harness routing and my load jumped 30%. Nothing is consistant with these cars when keeping the system stock

 

You were not being referred to. Those more intent on arguing factless points lacking the experience to proficiently discuss this subject were the ones being pointed out.

Its interesting how the ones being combative always seem to have alterior motives. This is the reason our participation in the thread was halted until a member with notable credentials had some additional input.

But yes, JBanks answered all the combatants with one single post. Thanks.

 

I have been doing base flashes for 4 years now

Making a base flash which is designed to work with a specific set of mods is a talent all to itself

In the days before end user reflash tools (evo scan) all reflashing had to be done by the tuner and a lot of it was mail in reflashes.

Doing hundreds of different cars, and loads of R & D very good base maps were developed which proved to work very well.

I am most proud of the outsanding record of reliability which these base maps have enjoyed with many customers exceeeding 100,000 miles with no reported problems.

While a full custom tune is always the best soulution, with an experienced tuner a base map can be very effective and safe.

Al

 

regarding icbanks input about logging at high speed, I too would enjoy the difficulty of too much data. There does come a point though that a less refined point more accurately indicates the norm.
I guess I 'd like to understand the data that is given by the ecu. Is it a high speed photo of an incident or is it an average over some small amount of ms? I'd guess the latter since a freak incident is less important than the average.

So does the data we log come to us at the same intervals that the ecu sees ? Or does the ecu get more data per second than we are collecting?

a bit ot but the op has had enough answers by now.

 

TTP, most people use a verity of tools to get the load points they want, manual timing, load calc, 2byte, the point is that for what ever reason one person may prefer one method over another. You prefer the timing method over 2byte, and as your earn your living tuning cars you must have a very good reason for this.

Given your experience, can you say that you have seen a great difference between the load points 2byte gives over timing? I ask because I have ECU,+ and the latest version of the software allows map tracing using 2byte or load calc, out of habit I also cross reference to timing ( as I did before ECUflash, Mitsilogger etc) and the variation is very small on my car. The usual thing that catches my attention, is when the map trace jumps up a load cell at high RPM where you'd expect the load to reduce, usually you can make a mental correction to "smooth" the trace and this is where the cross reference to timing is most useful to me.

Incidentally I remember reading some time ago, that the ECU may make alterations to the timing map in similar ways to the corrections in load. If this is indeed the case, timing might have variations out side of the map, I don't know if any more information on this is available from those who have disassembled to a greater depth than me, ( I'm very shallow in that respect).

MB