Sidebar X3,

How is the max rich AFR vs coolant temp useful?

 

As per the title of the thread, what can DB do to help.

Provide some input here:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...unch-maps.html

It would be interesting to learn what is the best way to get a car off the line. If you haven't already how about messing around with the launch maps to see what is the best way for you to get project white out of the hole so that you can provide input to us.

 

He sold Project White

 

Dave,

Now I have never met you obviously and prob won't ever meet you but it would be nice to. Quit taking everything to heart. I've researched your cars, the work you do, etc etc. Countless hours of reseaching your stuff. Yeah you may not know something now but there was a time when you didn't know tuning as well as you do now. It takes time and practice to get things down.

Just keep doing what your doing and ignore these douche bags who want attention cuz they didn't get it when they were little. Everyone on here loves your products from what I have seen and loves your tuning abilities obviously. I will be using ALL of your products but unfortunately you won't be the one tuning it, Tony @ T1 will be. I'm sure you know exactly who I'm talking about. I'm very close with that shop. Now don't get me wrong I wouldn't mind letting you tune it but your a bit far.

So for your title, JUST KEEP DOING WHAT YOUR DOING.

 

To be honest, the stock ECU I am fairly certain has all those maps you guys are talking about, maybe they haven't been found yet but my guess is Mitsubishi took care of all that when they built the cars. Think about it, the stock car will start at -60 degree F and run fine again at 140 degrees F, the cars don't self destruct and run correctly at sea level and at 10,000 feet. I don't look for most of the other tables because Mitsubishi did an excellent job on them and I THINK if the fuel trims are correct the factory corrections should work.

Based on what I see with the AEM and so many things NOT working correctly when it comes to settings such as coolant temp/air temp compensation, I am very happy to leave those types of settings up to the Mitsu engineers and don't care if I ever see those tables. haha, seriously.

Mitsubishi has real engineers (not offense to anyone, just making a point) working on those ECU's and tuning those cars. Much more advanced than I will ever hope to be. Those cars were shipped around the world for testing to be sure they functioned correctly. I remember back in the late '80's when Archer Brothers did cold weather testing in Duluth for Eagle and supplied data so the cars would run in those climates. They really have it figured out and in my honest opinion, opening up some of those tables for the avarage guy to mess with (or me) will many times leave you with a car running much worse.

Now that I typed all that out, I have to admit now that you mention it. Some of the cold start maps do not work just leaving fuel trims correct, the cars won't start when it's real cold out or even start rough on E85 in cool temps. So.............maybe disregaurd some of what I just said. Crap!

As for the two step/launch control. I use the simple 2 step on the AEM and found it to work exceptional, same with the stock ECU, the standard 2 step works out perfect in my opinion.

I'll keep this stuff all in mind and give up some input.

 

0xdead, I guess that's part of the ECU flash I haven't seen yet. I'll have to read up on it tomorrow.

I use the standard two step under MISC where the rev limiter is. Project White on slicks I just set it to 6000 rpm and that's all it took. Low 1.40 sixty foot times and the car ran 10.38 at 138 mph. Even my RS, the badbish, I set it to 6800 rpm and that's it, let her eat and it has run a 1.40 sixty foot and ran 9.0.

I am using the Haltech now and messing with the actual anit lag. Where the Badbish was leaving at 8 psi and 6800 rpm the car now builds 30+ psi instantly at 6500 rpm and I am trying to work with that, obviously leaving in that car at 30+ psi would be ugly.

I hate to say this but as well as just the simple two step has worked out for us on every single car we've built and raced I'm not sure it's work the set up and such to use anything else.

I'll see what I have to do to update some rom's and get that launch control into a car. I'll give some feedback. Best place to test it though is the track and we are already all closed up for the year.

 

Once the season restarts, I'm sure people will have some decent base maps to work off of. Once you have those settings to build from, I bet you guys will see if there are any gains to be had.

 

Dave,

On regards to the ECU stuff. Sometimes the engineers have to make decisions based on emissions etc. Thus you can edit things to improve cold weather drive ability etc.

So you just use the factory fuel cut style launch and let her eat? Interesting. Do you stage the boost control or not? In the latest versions of tephra mods we have provisions for gear based boost control that I've found helpful. When you get around to working with more anti lag on the haltech please do fill us in on what you find works best. I know that too much fuel and not enough timing will wash the plugs out etc. Just some *rough* principals to shoot for would be nice. For me personally, I've only left on fuel cut style rev limiters and only worked on antilag with beer in had at a garage, never at the track.

 

Tephra is always looking for a good tester to test different maps and ROM's. Having access to a dyno would be a great value.

Here's the thing, a lot of the stuff that gets posted online is tested for multiple weeks. I cannot tell you how many emails go back and forth between all of the testers, myself, and tephra. Not only that we have to organize it within ECUFlash and make it "dummy proof" to help with all the questions when they come up. In a sense we are releasing our own software package to the public not knowing how technical each user will be.

When we go back and forth we do so constructively and suggest input to the issue in a way that will aid the person or group to find an answer. I have often seen by vendors (not you specifically) offer solutions based on information they have read or had been tested by me or others. Then they turn around and mis-inform people and try to act like they know it as fact. In turn it was something a group of use tested or found and/or I tested directly, and question us directly as to how we are wrong.

In the end I think that you are on the right path and appreciate your honesty on the issue and the shear fact that you posted makes me believe it bugs you. If something bugs you, you care about it and that's what drives us all.

I don't really know what you could do to help out but sometimes we need parts to test and your experience might help aid us to sourcing that part or getting access to equipment to help point us in the direction that solves the issue.

I don't expect you to give away all information but when it comes to the stock ECU, why not? It will ultimately bring you more business for tuning and allow you to "become" one of the "experts" with this stuff.

Email me offline, I am actually working on a list of "experts" for testing the Tephra ROM's or basic Q/A to solve issues. I have a couple of things that I need some help with putting together the v7 releases for everyone.

phenem at gmail dot com

 

Dave just make race cars, no need to argue on the net over stupid people. Be careful with those types because I hear their stupidity is contagious.

 

I got one for ya Dave, something I've been always curious about and would take 3 minutes for you to test.

Do a pull with the EGR vacuum lines attached (the ones that always blow off on evo's) then do another pull with them pulled off. I'm curious how much that boost leak from the EGR valve straight into the exhaust manifold really affects HP on the dyno. That would be great data and only requires 2 pulls. Seeing a dyno chart,rather than everyone's opinion, would be excellent.

 

Its not a boost leak, it recircs EGR so you lose power because of intake manifold temp going up and the increased knock sensitivity. All in all its between 10-15whp on our dyno. I can test a car back to back though if you really wanna.

 

The EGR passage goes straight from the intake air charge path......bypasses the engine.....and goes straight into the exhaust manifold. Under 'vacuum' is when the EGR system works, while boosting it's supposed to be blocked off. If you do a boost leak test with the vacuum lines off you can hear the air flow straight into the exhaust stream and its almost impossible to build pressure in the intake unless you have a very high volume compressor. I actually use this to test for air leaks on my exhaust gaskets by slightly blocking the exhasut tip so a few psi of pressure can be seen in the exhaust piping haha.

I would have considered that a boost leak since its not going into the combustion chamber. Granted, I know pressures between the combustion chamber and the turbo can be very high so it may be greater pressure than the intake pressure so I see your point of it actually allowing the 1400-1600* air temps to find its way back into the air charge. That would be cool if you wouldn't mind doing some testing on an 'average' bolt-on setup so people can see what a 300-400whp(dynojet power range) Evo would lose from this common leak

 

OK, last week I waas doing some tuning and remembered working on Project White. I also remembered the cobb software that I smashed in the vise and returned to them

One thing I'd like to see changed/modified with the ECUflash that would make life much better.

The MAF Scaling. In reality we should be able to input the AFR we want to run in the fuel maps and then never touch them again (unless we want to change what the car is actually running for AFR). So we could input 14.7 in all the low load cells interpolate a few cells up to the WOT AFR's we want and then input 11.5:1 in boost for example.

Then the rest of the tuning SHOULD be accomplished by telling the ECU that at XX MAF voltage the car is seeing XX grams/minute and it would then calculate the exact amount of fuel it needed to inject to reach the target AFR. As long as those grams/minute don't change through mods or a boost leak your AFR target will always be met under every condition then.

That is the actual correct way to tune the car. I had Project White extremely close but the max value that can be input I believe was 255 so after that the AFR fuel tables are off again.

I'd think this would be an easy fix.

 

Subaru style lol

You should have taken video of the cobb smash and put it on youtube haha.