Intellectual Property
Oct 18, 2009, 01:13 PM
#3
Evolved Member
iTrader: (28)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
God, I really did open a can of worms, didn't I?
Here's my thoughts, and they are from a non-legal background, so take them for whatever they're worth.
I'm going to start out by saying that this in no way is me saying that no one should make money off of ecuflash. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. If you want to have it done and are not comfortable doing it yourself or lack the expertise to do it, why should someone why should someone not be able to charge a fee for their talents?
Strictly related to tuning and ecuflash (which is the standpoint which we are discussing), I don't truly believe such a thing exists nor should it. What is being done is modifying a product to operate outside the scope of it's original parameters using software that is free to all. Freeware, for all to use.
Given that the method is free, and that someone else with similar knowledge amateur or professional could inevitably come to the same or similar conclusion, why should the tuner own the tune? A tune in and of itself does not have a copyright, and until it does, once a tune is done for someone, be it for free or for fee, it becomes the property of the owner of the vehicle to use however they should please.
It's also impossible for a tune to have a copyright. There's no such thing as a one size fits all tune. Any competent tuner will tell you so. The only way such a thing would be possible is if both vehicles' engine setups and tuning conditions were identical in every aspect. So given that, does it sound rational to have a copyright for each and every tune on account that there are literally billions of variations possible? I think the answer to that is no.
Where I believe IP begins and ends is with the vehicle manufacturer. Mitsubishi Motors in this case. They have paid for the right to use the hardware and associated software to develop the end product of the stock ecu.
I'm aware that my response will probably cause more of a stir, but this is how I see it.
Here's my thoughts, and they are from a non-legal background, so take them for whatever they're worth.
I'm going to start out by saying that this in no way is me saying that no one should make money off of ecuflash. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. If you want to have it done and are not comfortable doing it yourself or lack the expertise to do it, why should someone why should someone not be able to charge a fee for their talents?
Strictly related to tuning and ecuflash (which is the standpoint which we are discussing), I don't truly believe such a thing exists nor should it. What is being done is modifying a product to operate outside the scope of it's original parameters using software that is free to all. Freeware, for all to use.
Given that the method is free, and that someone else with similar knowledge amateur or professional could inevitably come to the same or similar conclusion, why should the tuner own the tune? A tune in and of itself does not have a copyright, and until it does, once a tune is done for someone, be it for free or for fee, it becomes the property of the owner of the vehicle to use however they should please.
It's also impossible for a tune to have a copyright. There's no such thing as a one size fits all tune. Any competent tuner will tell you so. The only way such a thing would be possible is if both vehicles' engine setups and tuning conditions were identical in every aspect. So given that, does it sound rational to have a copyright for each and every tune on account that there are literally billions of variations possible? I think the answer to that is no.
Where I believe IP begins and ends is with the vehicle manufacturer. Mitsubishi Motors in this case. They have paid for the right to use the hardware and associated software to develop the end product of the stock ecu.
I'm aware that my response will probably cause more of a stir, but this is how I see it.
Oct 18, 2009, 01:26 PM
#4
Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think this is great discussion point. Sadly, the last time I ventured an opinion on an issue of harm and subsequent liability , even saying that I was not giving legal advise as I do not practice that type of law, the entire thread was deleted.
I suspect that the same will be true of this thread...so type fast!
I suspect that the same will be true of this thread...so type fast!
Oct 18, 2009, 01:29 PM
#5
My personal opinion is that ideas such as Intellectual Property and patent law do a great injustice to society as a whole.
Instead of society benefiting from the best/smartest/cheapest/most efficient implementation of a process or idea, we firmly attach that process or idea to one person or company simply because they were first to market with it.
The power of human creativity is quite amazing, but it's sad that only a tiny fraction of it is utilized.
Someday, I hope the human race puts progress ahead of profits. I hope the reward of sharing & giving away a new technology or a new idea is more desirable than the monetary reward of selling the maximum number of units at the highest price to customers and the lowest cost to yourself.
Instead, when all we pursue is profits, we get:
Instead of society benefiting from the best/smartest/cheapest/most efficient implementation of a process or idea, we firmly attach that process or idea to one person or company simply because they were first to market with it.
The power of human creativity is quite amazing, but it's sad that only a tiny fraction of it is utilized.
Someday, I hope the human race puts progress ahead of profits. I hope the reward of sharing & giving away a new technology or a new idea is more desirable than the monetary reward of selling the maximum number of units at the highest price to customers and the lowest cost to yourself.
Instead, when all we pursue is profits, we get:
- Planned obsolescence so they can continue to sell more in the future
- Poor quality goods that wastes the planet's resources and creates endless landfills and just too much junk in general
- Endless greed that is the driving force behind excess pollution and inefficient use of time & resources, simply because it's cheaper and generates more profit
Last edited by recompile; Oct 18, 2009 at 01:31 PM.
Oct 18, 2009, 01:41 PM
#6
While I agree in principle with much of recompile's philosophy and ideals, the challenge as ever then becomes how do you reward and incentivize corporations (who let's face it, are driven by profit to stay competitive and to stay in business) to innovate?
Oct 18, 2009, 01:42 PM
#7
Dwayne wanted to start a specific thread about this, so I took it upon myself to get it rolling. I have no agenda, it is a very "cloudy" subject to me. I am not educated in legal matters either so I only have ethics to guide me in this discussion.
Trending Topics
Oct 18, 2009, 01:54 PM
#8
Evolving Member
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Near water
Posts: 481
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To have a discussion of Intellectual Property, shouldnt there be IP thats been violated? From what Ive read recently there was mention of the SD patches and Ecuflash, but there is no violation there. Morality is another issue...
Oct 18, 2009, 02:01 PM
#9
It's not really possible so long as we have a monetary based economy. People only submit to employment in order to get money. But if there was no money, what would people do?
It works on the small scale... if there was a tiny town of 100 people, it wouldn't be hard to imagine the town coming together for the common good, sharing resources, helping each other, and living a life without money or jobs.
But apply that to the large scale and suddenly people feel it's an impossible utopia... But some day I think it will happen. The monetary system will eventually collapse for one reason or another, and people will lose faith in currency. Slowly, we will learn to savor resources instead of money. To focus on efficiency instead of profit. It's the kind of thing that will start out small and grow and grow and grow until money is no longer necessary.
. I already see more posts to respond to but I have to be good and help around the house for the rest of the day 
. Will have to sneak on later.
Oct 18, 2009, 03:51 PM
#12
This is the way that I see it... as I am kinda of an Art Geek at heart...
Ecuflash is like a blank canvas
Evoscan is like your idealistic scetch before you start painting
The laptop, sensors, and hardware are like your paint and paintbrushes
The tune is the finalized project or "painting".
Now everyone can buy a canvas, paint and paintbrushes, however not everyone is going to be able to paint like Picasso or Pollock.
They both have the same set of tools to utilize yet "Picasso" is able to create a more aesthetic or "functional" product to the end user.
With that being said would you pay the same amount of money for a painting by a 3rd grader as a painting by Picasso?
Ecuflash is like a blank canvas
Evoscan is like your idealistic scetch before you start painting
The laptop, sensors, and hardware are like your paint and paintbrushes
The tune is the finalized project or "painting".
Now everyone can buy a canvas, paint and paintbrushes, however not everyone is going to be able to paint like Picasso or Pollock.
They both have the same set of tools to utilize yet "Picasso" is able to create a more aesthetic or "functional" product to the end user.
With that being said would you pay the same amount of money for a painting by a 3rd grader as a painting by Picasso?
Oct 18, 2009, 04:30 PM
#13
Evolved Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anybody remember a little show called Firefly? It was on the Fox network for 1 season and took place on a derelect space ship named Serenity. Anyways it was a great show and got rave reviews for not only the writing, but the acting, and just the overall enjoyment of the show. Kind of a modern day work of art but in a Television show. This show was cancelled by Fox for lack of ratings desipite the accolades it received in it's short lived broadcast. The show was so popular however with it's small cult following, that Fox (once again driven by $$) made a movie called Serenity that was essentially just closure for it's fans. There was a similar move made by the same $$ driven company regarding a little known show called Family Guy. After being cancelled Family Guy went sindicated and now is one of the most profitable shows on TV.
All I'm saying is that Recompile is right. It's a profit driven time in society and things aren't likely to change ANY time soon. No matter your beliefs there will always be a yin and a yang, good and evil, and a take for every give.
NOTHING is gained without sacrifice. Decisions driven by profit will almost certainly affect quality at some point while those driven by creativity are likely to have a high rate of failure. It is what it is.
All I'm saying is that Recompile is right. It's a profit driven time in society and things aren't likely to change ANY time soon. No matter your beliefs there will always be a yin and a yang, good and evil, and a take for every give.
NOTHING is gained without sacrifice. Decisions driven by profit will almost certainly affect quality at some point while those driven by creativity are likely to have a high rate of failure. It is what it is.
Last edited by MrMeaner; Oct 18, 2009 at 04:34 PM. Reason: spelling
