Heres what Im working w/ at the moment but still a "WIP".
I have been trying different things w/ my tune, like different ramp rates of timing, as has been discussed ^^^ playing w/ mivec up top, and different ramp rates of WGDC up to peak boost, so my profile isnt "dialed in" just yet, but close... Nothing special 91 octane mods in my sig.
I was holding 5* from peak till 5000 ish, so I know I can add a * @ peak.
no cool graphs, but u get the gist...
Desired Boost Profile: Current Timing Profile:
3500 - 25 4
4000 - 25 5
4500 - 24.5 5
5000 - 24.5 6
5500 - 24.0 6/7
6000 - 23.0 7
6500 - 22.0 7/8
7000 - 21.0 10
7500 - 21.0 11/12

 

Here's a few pulls...not perfect but pretty good...little lean and low on timing...

pulls like a champ....more room for perfection though.

 

Here is mine, boost at 26 psi, mods in sig...

 

I posted this over a year ago I think? Either way it pertains to this thread.

91 oct, my personal Evo 8. FPgreen, HKS 272 cams, usual supporting mods.





This was a Evo 9 with normal bolt ons, stock turbo. 91 vs E85 timing curves:



- Bryan

 

..
Wrong icon.

 

Bryan,

I remember your thread. Out of curiosity, any advantage to run low timing at peak load and start ramp up right away like in this plot. Do you remember how much power did you have at the time?



Versus running a little more timing at peak and stay almost flat until the car is at a rev range where it can take more timing like in my case.



Is this mainly to combat knock @ peak or is it a gas thing. II ocasionally get the knock light flash at around 3500. I am on bad 93 but have not tried lower timing @ peak and fast ramp up. Thanks in advance. This is good stuff.

 

I believe that to have the best power under the curve you should continually increase timing from the point of peak tq out to the end of your rpm setting.

When we tune we do it for the "best case scenario" but most often the car isn't on a perfectly level surface and the air temp isn't 77 degrees. Thus, we try to get the fattest area under the curve to have the pest "potential" power at any given condition.

The general idea.....
Having AFR go from 14.7 to mist 12s durring spool up and after peak TQ taper to about 11.5 and run flat while aslo have timing bottom out at about 4 degrees at peak TQ and slowly ramp up toward your rpm limit is the "BASIC" idea behind tuning our cars. This is with pump 93 octane fuel.

Lower fuel octane requires a little richer mixture and a little less timing. Vice versa for race fuel and e85.

Tuning for power isn't the difficult part of tuning. Getting the car to react well to every driving condition is what seperates a good tuner from a bad one.

Sure peak HP numbers look great, but to have a FAT power band will make the car much more fun to drive in my opinion.

 

That is basically the same profile I have. How is the knock? Seems like you also have to wait until 6K plus to start ramping timing more aggresively.

Its funny how no one comments on threads that are related to timing. Some people think it is a well kept secret. But you can actually read about it on any good engine management or engine tuning book.

 

You hit the nail on the head. Seems most of the "tuners" out there want to hide everything they are doing. Funny thing is, anyone that wants to take the time to learn can do everything the "tuners" are doing and more

I will not buy a tune. I made that mistake once; never again.

The part that really angers me is that everything that has been used in the realms of stock Evo ECU tuning have been discoverd for FREE here on these boards. These "tuners" use other people's hard work and then take credit, and cash, for "tuning" a car.

Those "tuners" need to contribute a lot more to stock ECU tuning if they plan on staying in business tweeking stock ECUs. People will catch on eventually that "tuners" should give as much as they take.

Don't get me wrong, there are a few "tuners" on here that give input and try to help as much as they can to enhance our stock ECU tuning abilities. Still there is a lot more that do not.

 

Definitely true to an extent I think MrFred and Tephra amoung others deserve quite a bit more credit than they really get. This map here is based off the map MrFred had for his own e85 car.

Here's my own map tweaked from his base, I consider it a mild setup running e85 and 30psi of boost dropping down to 28-29psi by redline. AFR's dip into 11.5 at peak torque and lean out to around 12.5 by redline thanks to the lack of a double pumper.

 

I was tinkering around a lil this weekend, and lowered boost to 23.5 @ peak till 4500, from 25, and gave it another 2* (I knew it could handle 5*, so I tried 6*) and to my surprise, the car liked it. (richened it up a point or 2 AFR, here and there) I started w/ 6 @ peak, and slowly worked my way down to ~5500, adding a * each rpm point, each pull. I left the upper portion alone for now... So now Im peaking @ 6* and holding to 5500. Ran it through the VDR, and noticed a nice lil gain, everywhere up to 6500...
Its been said, but didnt really believe it till now, its not how much boost, afr or timing, its the combo of all 3. Im seeing more power now, 23.5, and 6*, than w/ ~ 25.x and 4-5*... I thought more boost = more power, but not necessarily... Learn something new every day on this forum, or at least almost every day... lol

Knock is under 3 counts, well, in 6 pulls, I had 2 blips of 2 counts, and in 1 pull I had a 3count... So looking good so far... Havent done a 4th gear pull yet...

Ya, my car doesnt like to ramp up till l8. Im gonna try and work on 5500 and up, and see how much she will take, although she doesnt like too much timing up top. The most I have run up top was 12*by 7000, but @ 20psi. Im trying to run 21 up top, so most likely, Im at my limit, or very close w/ 10 -11...

 

I am not saying that people should not buy a tune or pay for tuning their cars. But I do believe that some tuners could share more of what they do.

But keep in mind that some of them make a living out of this. But again not everyone have the discipline required to tune a car and that’s the people that pay for a tune.

If someone does not know what they are doing they better pay for a tune and not blow up their engine.

That is very true. When I bought the JDM Map Sensor from MrFred he was kind enough to take a look at my ROM setting since they were not working. It ended up being an errir in the “endian” type definition. Tephra ROM also rock and that is not an easy thing to do. At least not easy for me. I know there are many others that help out the community.

I did not want to take this off topic so back to topic. Back to some more logs or maps.

 

I've been tuning for a decade now. I've done hundreds and hundreds of different cars. From old Mazda and honda engines up to the latest stuff Ferrari puts out. I've also seen dozens and dozens of client tuned cars. In all my years I can honestly say I've only ever seen 2 client tuned cars that were well done.

You can't just read a bunch of forums and magically become a good tuner. It does take experience and a lot of knowledge about the basics. Half of the stuff you read on the internet isn't even right anyway. I like seeing those who want to get their feet wet in this stuff, learn tuning, efi stuff with basic and inexpensive things like megasquirt for example. Just don't assume you can spend 6h reading interweb howto's and have that stack up to 2,000h of dyno and tuning experience.

-Michael

 

I have not tried lowering the boost yet. I think that you can create more torque at peak with boost if you are not knock limited by fuel. I will try to add more boost after 6000 to see if the curve does not go flat. If that does not work I will try lowering the boost and bump up timing. It really depends on how efficient is your turbo at the PSI setting. I am also targeting around 11.4 AFR after peak to readline. At peak load I am at 10.9~11 AFR.

 

Moar Curves!