l2r99gst

iTrader: (2)

If I were you I would probably tune with your old Mellon map as you base map, or even this one...up to you.

Cams will usually need the following:

1. More timing at idle
2. Maybe a slightly higher idle RPM
3. Sometimes, depending on how much VE and mass airflow has increased at the same load, slightly less timing though the RPM range.

Start with your idle and make adjustments until it is satisfactory to you, or at least doesn't stall.

Then, do WOT pulls through the RPM range, logging knock and adjusting timing and AFR until you have clean runs (assuming you are on pump gas...E85, you will have to analyze for MBT via dyno analysis, as you will likely not knock before reaching MBT). There are several ways to tune, but make adjustments until you like the feel of the car, pre boost, during boost ramp up, and while on boost. It will take a lot of logging and adjusting. No one can tell you what numbers to use just by looking at your maps.

jid2

iTrader: (62)

This map is not horrible, it's just a little old school with the block style approach. Most of the people in here find flowing smooth transition to be better. But it takes much longer to create maps like this - and super speed tuners don't have that time so they block things.

You need to create smooth timing maps. As others have said you can start with this map and taper the timing in the high load cells. Read around and you will see that most people tune a few degrees at peak torque and then ramp to 12-17ish out the top depending on the car. So you should be looking to make nice smooth profiles like that. Again your Mellon map is likely pretty close - as cams are mostly about idle (more timing at idle), adjusting AFR, and maybe a slight tweak to timing at high load.

Here's a road map I made a long time ago. Not perfect, but kinda describes areas of the map.

ethan169

iTrader: (3)

Ok so Ive had a fellow EvoM member help me out a little bit with my timing map. Basically smooth things out and get rid of the blockyness. From what I can tell anyway.

Ive run some logs of the updates and things seem to be looking better. Knock is basically under control and AFR's seem ok to me. Im having a couple weird issues with EvoScan and Mitsulogger. Almost every time I try running logs with Evoscan my logs cut out for a few seconds when I hit 100 TPS. Mitsulogger has been ok for the most part but last night I did a quick 4th gear pull while on the interstate to see how things are looking. It cuts out for about 2 seconds worth of logging and then comes back on. Ive attached a log of this.

Anybody know whats going on here? or ever encountered this?

ethan169

iTrader: (3)

Ok so I have posted the changes that were made below. The old maps are on the left and the new maps on the right. I have also attached two third gear logs that I pulled last night. I finally got a working logger that can get both my JDM Map and LC-1. Except for the problems that I have stated in the post above. anyways

Here are my questions:

1. It looks like im hitting some higher loads then the EcuFlash tables have. My maps currently go up to 260 load and I see on my 4th gear pull a brief moment of 290load but as far as 3rd gear pulls ill see 277 load or so max and then tapering. I do remember reading somewhere how to add load columns to EcuFlash as well as RPM columns I believe... I just cant for the life of me find it on here. I keep getting the thread about being able to use higher loads for limiters like boost cut etc. up to 6xx i think it was. So my question is... is it necessary for me to expand and how?

2. The idle timing has been reverted to what looks like the stock numbers. 5* of timing for low rpm low loads. The car seemed to idle a little bit better or nicer with the more advanced timing from the old map (14*) Im running the GSC S2 cams. Should i run more timing and if so how much? What kind of transition from the adjacent cells is required to make this right? Meaning can I just throw 14* in there and leave the adjacent cells what they are (12,13,9 etc...)?

3. What about during spool up? Is the block of negative timing reaching too far down and my ECU is advancing the hell out of the timing when spooling and hitting higher loads with low - mid rpms? Im still trying to understand how this area is used.


Thanks for any help guys. Ive got a ton more questions but ill leave it at that for now.

-Ethan

-So im having trouble hosting the pic so I uploaded it instead.

jid2

iTrader: (62)

Just bump the timing at idle from 5 to 9. All the cells in the upper left that are 5 can be increased, it doesn't need to be crazy big like the block of 14's. And you don't need 14 degrees, 9 should do it.

To rescale you just change the numbers in the header, and then make sure the values in the table are appropriate. Look around at others maps for ideas, you just need to remove some of the resolution in other areas.

fostytou

iTrader: (15)

You can also move to a tephra v7 rom if you are feeling brave. That will get you many more load / RPM cells.

Small outside tip, you might want to smooth in the timing at 8k / 140 load.

CMB

iTrader: (5)

The guy who helped you for free knows more than the guy you paid. Pm me the guy that tuned you so I stay clear...

l2r99gst

iTrader: (2)

1. You don't necessarily have to have your load column go up to the load you are briefly hitting. The value in the last column for your tables will be used. If you are routinely running over the last load value through the pull, then you can do as others say and change the axis values to what you want.

2. jjd2 already answered this

3. Look at your logs and plot the points on the map and trace your path through it. That will tell you what cells you are hitting and whether the negative timing numbers are reaching too far down. Keep in mind for timing, intake temps above 77F use uncompensated load and below 77F use baro+temp compensated. Fuel uses baro+temp compensated for your entire pull.

tscompusa2

iTrader: (22)

why is WOT begin at 200 load? i always thought anything WOT was instantly 100 load? or am i correct and WOT = 100 load so its still spooling the turbo and takes till 200 load for maximum airflow?

warp9

iTrader: (35)

According to the log I seen, youre a little rich past peak TQ. Also if you plan on just keeping boost at 20-23 PSI these arent the maps for you as the timing is too conservative. This revised map is decent (read not optimal) and is geared more for higher boost on 93 oct pump gas.

Boosted Tuning

iTrader: (12)

OP, If you need help with a new tune, feel free to PM me.

ethan169

iTrader: (3)

I just want to state very clearly that Mellon had tuned my car previous to this tune and I was very happy with his tune. I installed cams and a few other things and wanted a dyno tune. I am not local to Mellons area so a dyno tune with him was not possible. So i sought out a different top tuner more in my area. I wouldn't sport the Tuned by Mellon badge in my sig if I didnt really think he was legit. Read my review on him.

Thank you for your offer on the help though Boosted Tuning.

EDIT: I changed my sig to try and loose some confusion.

Boosted Tuning

iTrader: (12)

Okay sorry for the confusion.

I edited my previous post.

merlin.oz

one other trick you can do to supliment jid2 comment re idle quality with cams, is reduce the idle stability timing adjustment. Provided your def file has that parameter of course.
If you set all thos 5* (and 8*) to 9* as suggested, you still wont get 9* all the time.
Idle stability adds and subtracts timing as it sees fit. This parameter can be reduced to aid idle with big cams.

_Speedy_

yeah you wouldn't hit any of those negative timing numbers, very rare. your fuel map looks like it would give you more power, mostly from leaning out the rich top a little which is common on stock ecus with walbro 255

with 23psi boost you should be hitting around 220 load, check your logs. 4500-7500rpm is where should focus your attention:
220 load: 7 7 8 9 10 13 13 (your timing map)
stock is : 5 7 6 10 12 15 15 (evo8 timing)

even the stock evo8 map is running more powerful timing... :S

others: look at the stock 200load 5500rpm, I noticed a similiar thing on my tuned timing map, why is 5500 detuned (less timing) ?