Injector scaling vs actual afr in close loop? Also does ve change closed loop fueling

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Feb 9, 2013 | 02:49 PM

#76

Dynotech Tuning

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From: Seekonk, MA

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10isace

I'll be doing all that for sure! In my mind it makes life easier.

However, I'm stubborn and I have to get 2d working perfectly. If one tuner can do it, I can do it.

It's more like a handful of tuners can do it. What's wrong with me?

On most setups, the difference at 3000rpm between 60-80kpa and 80-110kpa is DRASTICALLY different. Forget about during spoolup on a stock turbo. Some compensate by tweaking the 2D load-kpa table in those 2 areas but that can affect other areas. Its just much easier to use the full 3D VE table and there is no need to share calculations on 'areas' when you can build a good 3D VE map. 3D VE can be overwhelming but it certainly is more precise over 2D. Not to say you can't tune a car on 2D to run well, many do it every day.

-Jamie

Feb 9, 2013 | 02:54 PM

#77

211Ratsbud

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From: Watertown, NY

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10isace

I'll be doing all that for sure! In my mind it makes life easier.

However, I'm stubborn and I have to get 2d working perfectly. If one tuner can do it, I can do it.

It's more like a handful of tuners can do it. What's wrong with me?

3 years Ive been at this approach. I have concepts down, its down to figuring out why 1 degree difference at 200 load and 220 load can make a difference.

Feb 9, 2013 | 08:14 PM

#78

10isace

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From: East of the Rockies

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10isace

I'm using the Omni 4 bar and using 1.6667*x for the KPA settings.

0.2369*x*6.89475729 = 1.6333

Jamie,

I see my eval is different than yours. Is mine pretty far off? I did a lot of logging today and am setting up my 3d SD Rom. I'd like to plug in the numbers tonight, but I could wait until tomorrow with your eval.

Feb 9, 2013 | 09:06 PM

#79

211Ratsbud

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Im using the 1.6667 formula too.. sigh

Feb 9, 2013 | 10:23 PM

#80

Dynotech Tuning

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From: Seekonk, MA

***UPDATED 2/10/2013 with corrected formulas***

I'm glad you asked! After doing some digging, here are the ACTUAL formulas for the OMNI 3, 4 & 7 bar sensors from OMNI's actual formulas.

http://omnipowerusa.com/calibrations.doc

OMNI 3 bar kpa= x*1.23755087

OMNI 4 bar kpa= x*1.63345239

OMNI 7 bar kpa= (x/255-0.04)/0.0012858

OMNI 3 BAR MAP KPA

Code:

<DataListItem DataLog="N" Color="" Display="OMNI 3 bar kPA" LogReference="OMNI3barKPA_load" RequestID="38" Eval="x*1.23755087" Unit="kpa" MetricEval="" MetricUnit="" ResponseBytes="1" GaugeMin="0" GaugeMax="300" ChartMin="0" ChartMax="300" ScalingFactor="1" Notes="" Priority="1" Visible="False" LogHide="false" />

OMNI 4 BAR MAP KPA

Code:

<DataListItem DataLog="N" Color="" Display="OMNI 4 bar kPA" LogReference="OMNI4barKPA_load" RequestID="38" Eval="x*1.63345239" Unit="kpa" MetricEval="" MetricUnit="" ResponseBytes="1" GaugeMin="0" GaugeMax="400" ChartMin="0" ChartMax="400" ScalingFactor="1" Notes="" Priority="1" Visible="False" LogHide="false" />

OMNI 7 BAR MAP KPA

Code:

<DataListItem DataLog="N" Color="" Display="OMNI 7 bar kPA" LogReference="OMNI7barKPA_load" RequestID="38" Eval="(x/255-0.04)/0.0012858" Unit="kpa" MetricEval="" MetricUnit="" ResponseBytes="1" GaugeMin="0" GaugeMax="700" ChartMin="0" ChartMax="700" ScalingFactor="1" Notes="" Priority="1" Visible="False" LogHide="false" />

-Jamie

Last edited by Dynotech Tuning; Feb 10, 2013 at 04:14 PM.

Feb 10, 2013 | 12:08 AM

#81

211Ratsbud

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From: Watertown, NY

you sir.. are distinctly precise in your effort!

Im gonna e-hug you.

Feb 10, 2013 | 12:51 AM

#82

Dynotech Tuning

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From: Seekonk, MA

DELETED after catching a math error

-Jamie

Last edited by Dynotech Tuning; Feb 10, 2013 at 01:11 PM.

Feb 10, 2013 | 06:54 AM

#83

10isace

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Love it!!! I'll throw out the old logs and start new today.

Feb 10, 2013 | 01:12 PM

#84

Dynotech Tuning

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From: Seekonk, MA

So I goofed last night, probably from how tired I was. I mixed up my math formula so I will be updating the correct values shortly. My bad guys.

-Jamie

Feb 10, 2013 | 03:59 PM

#85

10isace

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From: East of the Rockies

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynotech Tuning

So I goofed last night, probably from how tired I was. I mixed up my math formula so I will be updating the correct values shortly. My bad guys.

-Jamie

I know the feeling! Thanks for catching that.

Did you mean x*x*1.63345239 or x*1.63345239 for the 4 bar. I bet I'd get some interesting numbers with x*x*1.63345239.

Feb 10, 2013 | 04:15 PM

#86

Dynotech Tuning

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From: Seekonk, MA

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10isace

I know the feeling! Thanks for catching that.

Did you mean x*x*1.63345239 or x*1.63345239 for the 4 bar. I bet I'd get some interesting numbers with x*x*1.63345239.

lol, that's why I get for dealing with too many numbers too quickly haha.

-Jamie

Feb 11, 2013 | 10:09 PM

#87

10isace

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From: East of the Rockies

Wow, this is an effort to get this right and smoothed. I haven't even flashed this in my car yet.

I can see how decel can throw the numbers off. I tried to eliminate that via Excel by deleting those cells and obvious high VE numbers to get averages.

This is my first go at it. It took hours to do. I'm doing my second log to see if it matches up. I'll do more logging tomorrow.

I assume I smooth these out.

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Feb 12, 2013 | 04:39 AM

#88

Dynotech Tuning

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From: Seekonk, MA

It took you hours to do that? Send me that datalog and I will take a look the way I generally do it and see if I can show you how to do it in minutes. Use the email in my signature.

-Jamie

Feb 12, 2013 | 07:19 AM

#89

10isace

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From: East of the Rockies

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynotech Tuning

It took you hours to do that? Send me that datalog and I will take a look the way I generally do it and see if I can show you how to do it in minutes. Use the email in my signature.

-Jamie

I know right. I got on a roll doing it my way, but after about 5 minutes of filtering and formula's in Excel to do one cell on the 3d map... I decided to keep doing it my way.

Bad decision.

I looked at EvoScan graph and thought the info was being thrown off by decel, so I went into Excel to clean it up and never came out of Excel. I was trapped.

Feb 12, 2013 | 08:11 AM

#90

211Ratsbud

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If you just log ve and kpa can you not just enter the ve by what it read at that kpa?

I still don't comprehend how to get around the difference in load to kpa on a maf to sd rom. My load reads higher on sd per boost level than on maf.

So are we using the right kpa formula then 10isace?

Ya know I looked at your handle for a while and said ten-ac-ious
Ten is ace. Comprehension > me

Last edited by 211Ratsbud; Feb 12, 2013 at 08:17 AM.

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