nj1266

iTrader: (6)

You are wrong. I have logged my AFR WITHOUT the Xede 7 times and found the majority of AFR point at 20-21 psi around 11.2 or less. It is nowhere near 12.5:1. This with with a stock ECU. You can see the pic of 7 WOT runs and the AFR at peak torque/boost, ie, 3500 rpm is almost always below 12.




Wrong again. Here is a run with Shiv's off-the-shelf map BEFORE I modified it. You can clearly see that the AFR dip below 12 at peak torque/boost.

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

Well, I don't know what that first thing is saying, but I have dynographs with the AFRs going from closed loop to open loop and being above 12 during spoolup and peak boost while slowly transitioning to the 11s, then 10s, then falling off the chart. This was with no tuning. Hell, at 4500, I _still_ had about 11.7-11.8 AFRs. Anyway, it's still normal to go lean during spool. I'd show you all the Shiv tunes, but all their dyno threads I found have broken image links now. It's normally high boost and quite lean down below 4000rpm, then it goes progressively richer up to 7k rpm.

No reason to run 2-3* timing at peak boost unless you just don't want to make power.

nj1266

iTrader: (6)

Look at the third column from the top the one that says 3500 rpm. Now look at row 20 psi, 20.63 psi and 21 psi. These are the peak boost rows. Now look at the cells and you will find the AFRs that correspond to the rpm and peak boost. What do you see in the cells? You see an 11.27, 11.14, and 10.91. These numbers are averages of the 27 times, 6 times and 2 times that the AFRs hit the corresponding psi @ 3500 rpm.

This is the SUM of the 7 WOT runs that I have done on my stock ECU. They are nowhere near 12.5 AFR at peak boost/torque like you have said. What you said is incorrect.

The AFR dynograph from the dynojet are NOT accurate and they are tkaen at the tail pipe. They are generally 0.3-0.4 too LEAN. So when you see 12 AFR it is actually 11.7-11.6 AFR.

vboy425

iTrader: (19)

well maybe you guy are getting different reading because Warrtalon is flashed adn nj1266 using Xede

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

nj1266,

I am beginning to wonder about your wideband sensor. Where is it located? what type is it?

Btw, Vishnu doesn't use a dynojet.

nj1266

iTrader: (6)

It is an innovate and it is located in the downpipe 18-20 inches from the O2 housing. I have 75 logs and all of them read the same at peak boost/torque regardless of whether it is a stock ECU, Xede tuned by Tuning Tech or Xede with Shiv's map.

I know other have logged the same thing. Check out this log from Evo_Kid's Zeitronix. Notice the dip in the AFR at Peak/boost. This log was taken when Evo_Kid had an Xede with the same Shiv map that I am using.

Nothing is wrong with my Innovate since other have logged the same thing with other AFR devices. It is just that Warr was wrong and he does not want to admit that he was wrong.

TTP Engineering

iTrader: (465)

Its no doubt a DF map trying to attain the programmed 8* of timing.

Shiv is not the benchmark for tuning. Take that crap to the Vishnu forums or Xede forums. Your posting does not belong in ecuflash if you are using XEDE. Hell you can't even log the correct timing numbers at the OBDII port with an XEDE.

I would reduce the ignition timing to where it is retarded to for those load cells and RPM and then log it again. If it remains under 1-2 counts, you should be fine. I would not be comfortable with a 5-6 knock count on a repeated basis.

evo 8 ya

iTrader: (31)

I'm going to do some more logging as soon as this heat dies down to get a better idea of what's going on and not base it on the only 2 logs I've done. On the 2nd run the highest knock count was 4. Would you still pull some timing at a count of 4?

TTP Engineering

iTrader: (465)

It is likely that 3 or higher pulls at least a degree of timing. I would try to keep in in the 1's and 2's.

nj1266

iTrader: (6)

No one can answer that question for certain. Most assume that the EVO ECU reacts the same way as the DSM ECU when it comes to knock sum. According to the DSMers, a knock sum of 3 to 7 and the ECU will leave timing alone. But does that apply to the EVO?

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/at...id=94383&stc=1

Mad_SB

iTrader: (8)

Your second log file looks like you pulled 1 degree and kept it pulled where the logged timing is 7*, I suspect like ttp said, that this is a DF map and has the entire 3-5k range set at 8*.

IMO, if the ecu is pulling timing, you still need to drop your target just a tad, until you reach the point where it does not, then massage the curve a little and settle on the numbers that give you the most consitancy.

AlwaysinBoost

iTrader: (17)

I've done well over 100 logs with EVOScan and my LM-1 w/RPM converter. I am 100% positive that the EVO ecu can pull timing on as little as one count of knock, but it all depends on the situation your in.

nj1266

iTrader: (6)

I do not understand how you can tell this I have seen logs with knock sums and the ECU adding timing and knock sums with the ECU pulling timing. How did you arrive at this 1 knock sum=1* pull conclusion?

l2r99gst

iTrader: (2)

That's not true.

I have posted this many times. The DSM ECU will pull approximately 1* of timing for every 3 knock counts. The exact forumla comes out to about .35* per 1 knock count.

That has been logged and verified countless times by myself and the entire DSMLink board.

Once I get enough time to play around with EvoScan, I will figure out whether this correlates with the Evo ECU or not.


Eric

AlwaysinBoost

iTrader: (17)

The reason I know this is because I have done A LOT of logging on my car. Take a look at this pic below from last night while I was tuning. This represents a pull from 3rd through 5th gear.

The white line at the bottom of the graph represents engine timing, blue is TPS, green is RPM, and that little yellow hump at the very bottom of the screen between the numbers 107 & 109 is a single count of knock. Notice how just at the instant of that one count of knock the timing dips ever so slightly. Once the knock is gone the timing instantly jumps back in line. I've seen this happen hundreds of times while tuning. Sometimes a single count will pull timing and sometimes it won't, like I said earlier it depends on the situation.