snooopy83

Hey guys,

I`m reading here for quiet a time, but my never got the "activate your account email" so I finialy got another email adress and registered me again and now everything worked well

I`m driving a 93 Eclipse GS (so yes its an NT, Eu spec, so 150hp 4g63 with 10.4:1 compression),
Right now I try to get this car tuned with an Evo8 Ecu.

Yes there is no reson to use an Evo8 Ecu in an old NT car, but turboed car got hit by a tractor (It was a converted Eclipse GS, with Evo3 turbo).
So the engine will make its way in the "new" Eclipse, but it takes a little time.

That why I decided to run the Evo8 Ecu in an NT car and get a first feeling for tuning with Ecuflash just to learn how to use it, before the turbo engine is in the car.

Whats done to the car:
- 850ccm FIC injectors
- Walbro 255lph hp
- Afpr
- Eclipse 2G Mas
- Eclipse 2G knock sensor
- running E85
- AEM WB-O2 (not wired into ecu yet)

now my problem is very simpel, most tuning threads are just about WOT tuning.
But I need advice for cruise tuning.
The stock timing maps just doesn`t fit anything, car is slow and it uses way to much fuel.

So I tried to map the car myself.

I used terpha mod as a base for the whole thing.
I lowered the "show knock" settings to almost zero to get an acutal idea whats going on.

But problem is, I get a good amound of know around 2.5-3.5k (load calculated between 90-100kpa) before and after that the knocksensor is seeing nothing, so I lowered timing, lowered it more... and more (around that area).
I started with ~27 counts... now its down to "just" 12 counts... but I don`t get it why it isn`t knocking around 4k with even more timing?

beside this knocking the car does perform pretty well with that maps, fuel consum is good, power is way better than stock.

btw. stupid question: isn`t a NT limited to 100kpa? that what I thought... but having loads calculated upto 160kpa make me feel wrong???

would be nice to get some infos from you gurus about timing tuning while crusing

Boosted Tuning

iTrader: (12)

A couple things.

First you should not use calculated load, as it is not correct with upgraded injectors (unless you edit the formula). You should be using 1byte or 2byte load.

Next, using Tephra V7 with big maps is probably overkill. If you want the mods that the Tephra ROM offfers, you may wanna try V5.1.

What ROM ID are you running?

snooopy83

Thanks for the answer

ok didn`t know the fakt that the calculated load isn`t correct, thanks.
Rom id is 96532706

I know that the maps are overkill right now, but I`m not trying the squeeze everything out of the NT engine, I tried a few roms and think this one is sweet and its the DMA Mod.
And I don`t plan to switch roms very often, because there is quiet a lot to adjust do make the rom run like I want to.

(2G MAS, WB controlled closed loop [haven`t done this yet, but want to run lean cruise])

Main question is basicly how to tune cruised... I don`t know if my idea of tuning for knock is really the best thing?
I`ll do another log with 1byte or 2byte load the other days that you guys can take a look and take a guess if that is really knock or the sensor is just flirting with me.

tscompusa2

iTrader: (22)

your injector scaling is most likely wrong. the fuel map should never be all 11's. you need to scale the injectors and then focus on the fuel trims to make sure they are good. the maf will need to be scaled also or it will throw off load and certainly closed loop idling.

use 1byte load with tephra v7, 2byte load with v5.

You might want to try to find the stock timing map for the 420a first before attempting your own stuff. Not safe not knowing the defaults mitsu wants for that motor at cruise.

Editing the knock filters is probably something that will be needed to be done as well, the 420a and the 4g63 are 2 completely different engines, ones dodge ones mitsubishi. one is going to make more noise then the other of course considering they are 2 different motors.

unless you can find the differences between the knock sensor on the 420a vs the 4g63, and find the base timing map for the 420a i would abort this switchover.

snooopy83

Sorry but there is no 420a!
Injectors scaled like they should, timing map is just a little bit more agressive than stock NT map (but its not like you can convert the map to ecuflash and it fits right where it belongs, the load scaling works different in the old ecu)
Logged 1byte load in the same log, so just to get it right: ~100kPa was wrong (sorry my mistake) its 60-70kPa!

Fueltrims are good, they are in the 5% range (so actually right now -5% low trim, -2% percent medium trim... and high trim is something that NT engine is not able to see at all )

Its not like I have no clue what I`m doing.

tscompusa2

iTrader: (22)

LOL my bad its a 93. its a 4g63 non turbo. - what about the knock sensors? did you check data between the two? it would help to know how they vary so you can tweak your knock filter settings to alleviate the knock safely if its due to phantom knock from an improperly configured knock sensor.

sidtheretard

iTrader: (5)

take timing out when it knocks dont add more

iTune

iTrader: (3)

What AFRs are you tuning for at part throttle/cruise? Remember, a Naturally Aspirated engine will be able to run leaner at WOT, tune for 12.5:1-13.0:1. In vacuum, the engine should want roughly the same ignition timing and fuel as a turboed 4g63, to a certain extent. Tune for 14.7:1-15.5:1 at cruise and idle, tapering to 12.5:1-13.0:1 as you approach 100kPa(WOT).

Get a set of DET CANS and tune your engine to be knock free, then tune you knock sensor to be able to hear actual knock and not engine noise. Where you hear knock(with det cans), retard ignition 2 degs at a time and re-tune fueling, until it's knock free.

One last thing, whenever you retard ignition timing, your AFRs will go rich, whenever you advance ignition timing, AFRs will go lean, so make sure you're keeping a close eye on fueling.

Also, you don't need v7 big maps.....the standard maps are just fine for a N/A engine. Try v 5.10 instead.

Jack_of_Trades

iTrader: (17)

Didn't the 1G NT 4g63's run the same block as the turbo'd 1G's? If so just buy a brand new Evo8 knock sensor for $30-40 and screw it in, same connector plug as a 1G harness too. Thats what I did on my Turbo'd 1G.

snooopy83

Yes its the same block than turboed 1Gs.
But sensor is a new 2G Eclipse Sensor, it shouldn`t be different from the evo8 sensor.

Thanks iTune, good post ... right now I`m tuning for 14.7 idle and ~12.5 at WOT (but will try to get the idle and cruise to 16.8:1 soon)
So its ok to tune for knock while cruising?
The different in vaccum is the higher compression and as I wrote I tried stock evo map at first, but fuel consum was bad.
Car used to need ~10l/100km (23.5mpg), with evo timing map it was like 12l (19.6mpg), so I looked at the NT timing map and it have about 5° more timing in low loads and because I drive the car every day I would like to have a normal fuel consum

And as I said earlier I`m just using the big maps to don`t have to change the whole rom, when I install the turbo engine.

jrohner

You probably need to adjust the knock multiplier tables. My 2g showed knock like crazy with the stock evo 8 settings. I just revved it up in neutral and adjusted until my knock light never lit up, and then it was fine WOT too.

Jack_of_Trades

iTrader: (17)

I do believe the part# for the 2G and Evo8 knock sensor are definitely different.

tscompusa2

iTrader: (22)

I highly recommend you do what Jack of Trades is suggesting and putting a evo knock sensor on just in case.. or buy detonator headphone set and tweaking the multiplier tables for the one currently intact.

tscompusa2

iTrader: (22)

30-40 bux for 100% reassurance is something i would not overlook. just do it man. if your motor gets hurt over 30-40 bux that would totally suck.

the_mork

iTrader: (1)

Some (limited) experience with an evo8 knock sensor in a 2g DSM suggests that the phantom knock issues have little to do with the knock sensor itself being different and much more to do with differences in engine noise.