Bjarne Cox

The Cosworth engine revved 11900 as you can read in Spyros' first post of this thread. There's nothing wrong with carburetors, it's only the people that think they're primitive, incomplex and think that they can handle them who won't succeed with them, ever. The F1 engines you are talking about indeed made this power, but have you considered at what RPM? 22000 RPM, almost twice as much as Spyro's engine and more than twice as much as a Pro Stock engine. This gives the F1 engine a BMEP of 1000*13000/3*22000=196.97 PSI, with Spyro claiming 416*13000/2*11900=227.23 for his engine, assuming he's running stock displacement. It's a tad bit more, but since high BMEP get's harder and harder to achieve with rising revs, Spyro's engine isn't even on par with the F1 and should therefore not be compared with it even if the power he claims is genuine.

Secondly, I didn't include compression ratios and fuel used in the Honda vs. Evo comparison since both the Honda and Evo ran on racing fuel, the Evo on VP Racing and the Honda on a specifically engineered toluene mixture, being nicknamed "rocket fuel" because of it's high potency, making them about equal. As for the Honda engine, it ran a 9.4:1 compression ratio, and I chose to assume that Spyros engine is running a similar one since he hasn't specified which type of VP Racing fuel he's using, atleast not in his first post. These factors were therefore not taken into consideration by me. I don't understand what you're trying to state by comparing the turbochargers. Sure, a bigger turbo won't heat the intake air as much, but flow is flow. He states the turbo flows 132 lb/hr of air. Does this mean you think that a GT4202 flows more than a GT3076 even if it flows the same? Either it flows enough or it doesn't. And don't you think that the McLaren-Honda team developed state-of-the-art parts? Doesn't the fact that it's the most successful F1 of all time show that it was and still is a top notch car? Another thing that should be taken into consideration is that the Honda was built for the track and repeatedly raced on it, although having a pretty narrow powerband, while Spyro's car is built for the strip without even running on it. Prove me wrong and I'll believe your numbers. Sadly enough, Spyro refuses to post any engine specifications and therefore I can't run it in something as Pipemax, an easy way to determine if he's lying or not based on, for instance, volumetric efficiency. Give me some specs or strip times and I'll believe you.

cversoza

iTrader: (1)

ExtremeTuners are no joke. They know exactly what there doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYaqskg3Wh0

Sute

I agree with Bjarne. Exact facts from the engine are not presented and it upkeeps such a discussion like this. For example exact cam specs are missign and as Spyros is claiming they are the main thing regards hunting the power.

Bjarne Cox

You sure? Because I just laughed all the time. Do you really think those times are hard to achieve if you go with a rolling start, since he probably can't do a good start even with 4WD, and full throttle shifts?

mt057

iTrader: (6)

Why would Spyros or any one else want to release full specs to silence a couple haters? If you want to know the specs of his cams buy some and measure them...

I think it is much easier to poke holes and question people. Throw up some math and try to debunk things.

Much harder to actually achieve them.

Do you have any work you would like to show off as well or are you simply here to talk ****?

khmerpimpin

iTrader: (20)

These guys are morons, go ask the F1 engineers their secrets and to give you full specs on what they do.. Sound unrealistic? Yes! So is asking the same information from a privateer. Just enjoy it for what it is, and if you aren't on the same level, don't try to bring the man down.

Bjarne Cox

That is a pretty bad comparison since the parts used in F1 isn't meant to be sold. If you sell something, as Spyro is doing, you do need specifications.

As I mentioned before, I don't have access to Pipemax at the moment because I'm on my Mac. If he would give up some specs, I would be able to use Pipemax to calculate the volumetric efficiency for that power and those specifications, easily determining the possibility of his claims. I would never buy cams that I don't know the specs of. I don't trust him. I bet they got tons of duration so that they won't work for anything other than drag racing. Unfortunately, I can't show of any notable work since I'm purely a theoretician at the moment. It's quite hard to raise any funds that I can use for development and parts since I'm just 17 years old and still in school.

Broham

iTrader: (10)

People in sweden are very educated at only 17. Very good man. Great discussion but please be patient im sure spyros can answer you

Acree

iTrader: (8)

So you can't even afford any of his parts anyways? Why don't you get off your computer and quit trolling?

I'm all for someone wanting proof of said claims, but you're not even a potential customer.

-Acree

khmerpimpin

iTrader: (20)

I had no idea there were international laws that said you must give up all your trade secrets if you have a product to sell. First thing I'm going to do is go to Mcdonals and get their Big Mac sauce recipe, then go to KFC and get their chicken recipe. Heck might as well go to every Japanese tuner so they can all give me the specifics on all the parts they engineer since they do sell them.

Spyros has been kind enough to share his passion for this car platform with us, and everyone has a right to question his results, but really what does he owe to any of us to take the time to show us these great parts? Nothing.

Jokeri

How do you know he is trolling?

R/TErnie

iTrader: (32)

I stand corrected. He does not have a fast volvo, nor a lot of experience. The latter a consequence of being 17. That being said, it doesn't mean he doesn't have a valid point... or that he is wrong.

Extreme Tuners

Bjarne *** stop this mess please. Its clear that u come to this site just to write to my topic as hatter, of course I will not pay attention or respond to anyone trying to do this all the time. Its easy to understand that today is someone Bjarne *** tomorrow Bjarne Fox after 1 month Bjarne Mox after 1 year another Bjarme Pox that want to pay attention.

I could solve any of ur question if ur writing style was different and wanted to know something really.
For ur occasion the suitable sentence that match is "imperfect knowledge worse than ignorance".
There are no technical questions at all, i just see some random wrong math u just copy from somewhere and have mix many different things to prove anything. U cant built a race engine from a simulation as u might think. These are math made by Harry Potter to Asterix to drink Mickey mouse finally. Thats ur story, so wrong and so different things mixed as salad.

I start read ur first post but I disappointed very quick. U have mix many different things in ur mind. I am sure that u dont have any kind of knowledge. U just play with a free simulator that u find on the web. Nothing to reality.
I start my post explain u some things – math but I realize that u don’t have a straight question as u realy don’t know what u want to ask. U just doubt generally. What relationships there is between Prostock and our high rev engines? What has frictional losses with turbo? U have no clue what ur talking about I am sorry. U just grab two words IMEP and BMEP from the web and come here to mess my topic with useless posts. I am fully disappointed.
If I start explain u with real facts and math how in 2006 we had 416hp from a 2ltr engine I am 100% sure u will not even bother read all my post, as u really don’t want to know or u cant follow me.

Its not strange, because i see this level of tuning that u seems to u unbelievable at least 6-7 years in public roads and by thousands. Why is strange my 206hp per NA 1000cc that we built in 2006 and not strange to u a stock Suzuki gsxr 1000 2006 model 200hp per 1000cc? With less CR, worst cylinder head flow, lower efficiency etc. we had as I hard remember 11300rpms max power and same had the Suzuki GSXR also, its long time I don’t remember details.
Then start send a complain letter to Suzuki to BMW to Yamaha about claiming more Hp than there are.

U see how easy was to explain u with out loose my time more that ur not know what ur talking about?
And before start mix nonsense math, look how to explain it little more deep:

The cosworth u laugh had 92mm piston 1 cr ring and 1 oil ring at 11000rpms 103%efficiency with 33hp frictional loses with 27.5m/sec IMEP 1.8bar BmEP 14bar FMEP 1.88bar PMEP 2.2bar charge loss 3%.
Suzuki Gsxr K6 1000cc 2 cr rings 73.4mm piston at 11000rpms 102% efficiency with 19hp frictional loses with 21.6m/sec IMEP 1.6bar BMEP 1.3bar FMEP 1.73Bar PMEP 1.77bar charge loss 10.8%.

If the above seems familiar to u, and have at least little respect to the other guys in this forum the most wise from ur part will be to erase all ur post, just keep ur account just to learn something and when u grow up and u are able to participate we are here.
I prove to u with a common an example from a usual engine that its able to do, and then I prove it with real math and physics to understand it. Now I will not answer to anything else just come to ur head or read to web and throw it here. I lost for u 30minutes. I could answer or upload some more tests this time I spent for u.

If u haven’t personal experience don’t judge anyone’s job, that’s an advice.
If u order something and wasnt exactly as we told u to be then u can write ur opinion.

To find our profiles u can buy them. Send email sales@extreme-tuners to help u.



Spyros

R/TErnie

iTrader: (32)

Further advice would be to be humble enough not to comment when people post pictures of their poor craftsmanship. Same reason why people who have been in this industry a long time say nothing in this thread. It just depends where you are in life.

For being 17 Bjarne is on the right track, and I think he should be supported and not belittled. I think someone with more professional experience would either ignore Bjarne's comments or collectively show him in a polite manner where he is wrong. I've seen it tactfully done several times, so I know it's possible.

To each his own. I'm not here to start problems, I just think everyone can get along and grow together. I remember when I was 17, and I don't think that discredits his thoughts or questions.

Extreme Tuners

I didn't write something to offend him. I write very polite.
i judge only what he wrote that had to do about my job nothing more.
U shouldn't write something like that to me, its not fair
professional is not only the guy that hide when someone try to offend his job but the one that defends it with polite way. when he writes in my topic that i claim etc. he is was not 17 years then? Now is?

Have u even see me write to another topic than mine?