While I agree that that horsepower diference should give you the edge, there are too many variables at play to make it that simple. First and formost you mentioned lengths not times, which raises a pretty obvious question and adds alot more to it. But gearing, driver skill, traction, overall setup of the car (including suspension, clutch, two-step), and experience driving the car on the setup it currently has all play a part in the outcome, not just power. So it sounds like your DLL numbers may be on the high side of the spectrum, I think basing it soley on lengths may not be the best way to figure it out,

 

An unrealistic loss? I can't speak about DynoDynamics since I haven't read much about them but as far as Mustang dynos go, they are supposed to simulate real world load conditions which is why they would read lower. With that said I would edit your post and be mad about an unrealistic gain of 20%.





As for the differences between all of the dynos I don't think there would be one set difference from one type of dyno to the other. From my understanding it all depends on how they dynos are set up, how they are maintained, etc.

 

I've used all of the popular dynos, and the readings on a 'some' Mustang dynos show drive train losses of 27-33%, that is unrealistic! Real world load conditions? That's funny as there is no way possible to come up with one single algorithm that can take all road conditions into effect... Real world = infinite variables...

Also, please don't tell me what I should edit in my posts - I have my experiences and opinion, you can have yours... If you think that +27% drive train losses are realistic, than I'm happy for you... Myself and every OEM car manufacturer and the SAE don't agree with you

 

not sure if you talked about this already but using low gears is another factor.

i had seen a 3rd gear pull on a 6spd STi on a dynojet

 

3rd or 4th gear pulls on the dynojet are going to be within 3-5whp of one another so most don't worry about that being a factor on the DJ.

 

We talked about this on nasioc, dyno pulls should be on a gear that is close to 1:1. I actually had ETS do multi pulls on their dynojet with their X, and they were within %5-10 of each other, 3rd being the highest HP.

 

I read through this post and a few things strike me right off the bat.
1)Car makers have been known to fudge numbers either inflating them (Nissan Senter SE-R Spec V, Mazda RX-8) or scaling them back (Neon SRT-4, Japanese Super cars due to gentleman's agreement).

2) You complain that variables in drag racing aren't accurate but how can you not think of it that way when it comes to Dyno's. Drag racing depends on tires, suspension, driver ability, sea level, wind, etc. Dyno's depend on settings, type, setup etc.

3) Using the dyno as a tool to figure out quarter mile times based on power output will not work....see above for reasons.....If you and I have the same car and I can drive better then you I will have a better 1/4 mile time.

4) Dyno's are again as stated only good to see a starting point and where you end up after tuning. Assume that all Evo's base line the same so if you get an increase of 50 who regardless of what dyno you used it will still be 50whp faster then a stock Evo.

Does that make sense. What your asking for will never happen....the only accurate HP rating is when they dyno the engine (And I don't think they do that with mass produced models) and at that point that isn't accurate because it doesn't account for wheels and drivetrain loss.

 

Coming from the Honda world were doing a 4th gear pull is where they dyno (Closest 1 to 1 ratio) I'm surprised most evo tuners I've seen (esp tuning on the street) like doing pulls in 3rd.

 

my pulls in Evo while tuning the AEM EMS were done in 4th, it's a 5 speed, and it made 478 hp and 434 ft lbs on a mustang dyno.

 

The problem with doing pulls in 4th gear on a dynojet is that AWD is a lot more load and therefore a HUGE load on the motor without the proper air flowing over the car for cooling purposes. Do a FWD on a dynojet and an AWD on the same dynojet and you will see with the same whp the dyno pull will take a much longer time.

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

1:1 ratio????Don't forget that there is also a final reduction in the gerabox, 1:1 ratio from engine to the wheels is impossible.

 

As far as dll and vdr dynos are concerned the biggest problem is finding a 100% flat road. I always do a two way avarage on a road I am doing the 3rd gear pulls on to try and cancel out any up/downhill sections. Here in SE PA a steady grade is about the best you will find, but almost nothing flat. I have seen a 90hp difference from doing a two way pull.

 

I just noticed this thread...

Mario, you and your brother should go to the same dynojet or mustang dyno if you want to compare power because when you're on the street racing you're introducing many other factors such as drag/aero, weight, driver etc...He already lied to you about the c6 z06 being stock and didn't confess about his mods until you beat him after you improved your driving on the later runs. You also mentioned to me that you lost a coupler after one of the races so I wouldnt' be surprised if you had a leak the whole time. I also wouldn't be surprised if his car is making more power than he's letting you know about. Again, both of you should go to the same dyno on the same day and you'll get the truth about your cars. Until then, you're just guessing.

as for mustang numbers compared to DLL, they are going to read much lower. DLL is closer to a Dynojet. I've not changed any settings to make it read that way, that's just how it is. Personally I prefer going to a Dynojet because the numbers can't be manipulated between different shops like they can with a Mustang.

Most of my customers see a little more hp/tq on a dynojet than the DLL I provided them. For reference my car did 675awhp on the street and two hours later with warmer ambient temperature I did 705awhp on a dynojet. Had I jumped on a mustang I wouldn't be disappointed if it only showed 600, they are very stingy by comparison ON AVERAGE. Keep in mind that some shops setup their Mustang to read like a Dynojet so neighboring shops don't make them look bad when a customer doesn't realized the brands have quite different outputs by default.

maybe someday every dyno will read the same but until then it's foolish to compare one to another.