FP-HTA86 vs PTE-6765
FP has successfully engineered a 67mm T3 based turbo, aka HTA 3794, and I currently own one. That being said, after a very brief talk with Spyros earlier today, he said that he has tested the HTA 3794 and has a few (number undeclared), T3 based turbos of his own design that will outflow the 3794 substantially.
That being said, my evo is a streetcar that I drive occasionally and I personally feel that the HTA 3794 is right at about the max in terms of turbo lag that I would like in my car.
Spyros will be getting back to me tomorrow on the cost associated with his turbos and providing that they are not something astronomical and offer similar spool time as my 3794 and provide a substantial increase in power, I will make the switch.
That being said, my evo is a streetcar that I drive occasionally and I personally feel that the HTA 3794 is right at about the max in terms of turbo lag that I would like in my car.
Spyros will be getting back to me tomorrow on the cost associated with his turbos and providing that they are not something astronomical and offer similar spool time as my 3794 and provide a substantial increase in power, I will make the switch.
with an 8500 rev limiter the HTA 86 car will OWN the 6765 car all day every day.. To be fast there is a simple rule of thumb.. you need 3k RPM of powerband.. 5500-8500 look at which car is making what at 5500 LOL
Mike
Mike
I have seen a few posts regarding what turbo is best for an Extreme Street Evo. Over the past year or so the need for a 40r or 42r have seem to almost disappear in this category.
I have always felt the bigger turbos are going to ruin your average HP, just giving you a peak number to brag about. Now with turbo’s like the HTA86 and PTE-6765 it makes 800 HP with nice curves to go along.
I haven’t yet to see a direct comparison of these two turbo’s. So I gather data off two cars that showed the full potential of each turbo. Then averaged there hp 5000-8500 rpm..
I have always felt the bigger turbos are going to ruin your average HP, just giving you a peak number to brag about. Now with turbo’s like the HTA86 and PTE-6765 it makes 800 HP with nice curves to go along.
I haven’t yet to see a direct comparison of these two turbo’s. So I gather data off two cars that showed the full potential of each turbo. Then averaged there hp 5000-8500 rpm..
Great comparo Freddy,, always brainstorming huh?
There's only 2 factors that are being lost here IMO..
A) You compared the 2 turbos in an rpm range that benefit the 86,,, -- Slide your rpm range to 6500-9500 ( the 3k that's needed to make a great pass like Mike said) and you'll have a new ball game. You can compare a stock turbo to the hta86 from 2k to 5k and argue that the stock turbo is better, but that wouldn't make sense either.
B) Since we're talking full potential, I think it's pretty clear to see that there's some power left on the table with the power plot you posted on the 6765... What boost were these turbos run at? Fuel? Maybe more detail would paint a more detailed picture.
I do believe the average driver would have an easier time making passes on an 86,, the transient response is killer--- but if we are talking "full potential", I would assume we are talking about a pass with someone like Trent or Roly behind the wheel.
This is a great topic, since one of my buddies has been losing some sleep over which turbo to go with next.
Great comparo Freddy,, always brainstorming huh?
There's only 2 factors that are being lost here IMO..
A) You compared the 2 turbos in an rpm range that benefit the 86,,, -- Slide your rpm range to 6500-9500 ( the 3k that's needed to make a great pass like Mike said) and you'll have a new ball game. You can compare a stock turbo to the hta86 from 2k to 5k and argue that the stock turbo is better, but that wouldn't make sense either.
B) Since we're talking full potential, I think it's pretty clear to see that there's some power left on the table with the power plot you posted on the 6765... What boost were these turbos run at? Fuel? Maybe more detail would paint a more detailed picture.
I do believe the average driver would have an easier time making passes on an 86,, the transient response is killer--- but if we are talking "full potential", I would assume we are talking about a pass with someone like Trent or Roly behind the wheel.
This is a great topic, since one of my buddies has been losing some sleep over which turbo to go with next.
There's only 2 factors that are being lost here IMO..
A) You compared the 2 turbos in an rpm range that benefit the 86,,, -- Slide your rpm range to 6500-9500 ( the 3k that's needed to make a great pass like Mike said) and you'll have a new ball game. You can compare a stock turbo to the hta86 from 2k to 5k and argue that the stock turbo is better, but that wouldn't make sense either.
B) Since we're talking full potential, I think it's pretty clear to see that there's some power left on the table with the power plot you posted on the 6765... What boost were these turbos run at? Fuel? Maybe more detail would paint a more detailed picture.
I do believe the average driver would have an easier time making passes on an 86,, the transient response is killer--- but if we are talking "full potential", I would assume we are talking about a pass with someone like Trent or Roly behind the wheel.
This is a great topic, since one of my buddies has been losing some sleep over which turbo to go with next.
Understood, I just wanted to throw these numbers out there. Since I was doing research for my next project
. Which should be ready in the next few weeks. No Question the 6765 will make more power at higher RPM, that monster is still climbing! I have been at this game a long time and always brain storming
. With the Extra RPM comes extra wear and tear on Motor, Rods, Bearing, Pistons, Valve Train, Accessories, blah blah. Hard to Shift the Transmission, better clutch needed.. etc.Both Turbo's are great right now and serve there purpose, but technology is always changing.
Last edited by Freddy302; Jan 7, 2011 at 09:22 AM.
I found the Dyno sheet of the 86hta Reese tuning car and to me it looks like he flatlined power at 7300rpms then died at 7600 rpms. So that first post from 7700 rpms to 8500 rpms hta86 0, and 6765 + 750! put that calculation in and redue the average.
Freddy302,
I didn't study and compare your first post but glancing over it I agree with the difference. The 6765 is too laggy for me to consider every running on anything but a drag car. I've done a few of them here and I eat a sandwich while I'm waiting for it to hit on the dyno, then hit the logging button when it finally starts to spool! haha
As for the HTA86 making 700 or more on a Mustang, my car, Brian's car, Tim's car, Tom's car all did it.
My car has run 9.0 @159.6 mph on the HTA86 and isn't a gutted/small brake drag car. Not many cars, regardless of turbo size, have matched that.
I didn't study and compare your first post but glancing over it I agree with the difference. The 6765 is too laggy for me to consider every running on anything but a drag car. I've done a few of them here and I eat a sandwich while I'm waiting for it to hit on the dyno, then hit the logging button when it finally starts to spool! haha
As for the HTA86 making 700 or more on a Mustang, my car, Brian's car, Tim's car, Tom's car all did it.
My car has run 9.0 @159.6 mph on the HTA86 and isn't a gutted/small brake drag car. Not many cars, regardless of turbo size, have matched that.
Rather than using Reese's car that you are pointing out is dieing off pizzaman, maybe use a car that doesn't die off AND makes more low end than James' car.
Something else. All this talk of ringing a car out for all it's worth in the RPM department is ridiculous. My RS gets shifted at 8500 and then it has to be run out further in 4th gear obviously because of the trap speeds. There are WAY too many people running their cars in the WRONG RPM range and they'd be so much quicker if they didn't.
We've got three EVO's that have gone 157-159 mph on the HTA86. It's not a freak that it only happened in mine.
I also use my car to autocross with and it works out well, that extra down low is a HUGE difference if you are going to ever drive the car on the street or use it for anything other than a WOT pass at high rpm.
Sometimes playing follow the leader only makes sense....
Something else. All this talk of ringing a car out for all it's worth in the RPM department is ridiculous. My RS gets shifted at 8500 and then it has to be run out further in 4th gear obviously because of the trap speeds. There are WAY too many people running their cars in the WRONG RPM range and they'd be so much quicker if they didn't.
We've got three EVO's that have gone 157-159 mph on the HTA86. It's not a freak that it only happened in mine.
I also use my car to autocross with and it works out well, that extra down low is a HUGE difference if you are going to ever drive the car on the street or use it for anything other than a WOT pass at high rpm.
Sometimes playing follow the leader only makes sense....