Toxicfab 02 dump results Fp Black +59whp!!
Apr 9, 2012, 07:46 AM
#33
I have a phone vid, I'll try to get it uploaded today folks. thanks for the comments.
Evoruss, I don't know if collin would do the premium port again as it was a 1 off piece but the normal dump is sufficient for great gains. It's built well and worth the dough
Evoruss, I don't know if collin would do the premium port again as it was a 1 off piece but the normal dump is sufficient for great gains. It's built well and worth the dough
Apr 9, 2012, 08:30 AM
#34
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Even if it's by being allowed to run more boost because of the relief in back-pressure from the turbo and exhaust. Which, in turn, helps relieve back-pressure in the engine at high rpm's resulting in less knock and less boost taper on stock-frame turbos. Every open dump car I've tune has made more power, safer; than a recirc'd setup with the same mods.
Just my .02 and what I've seen...
~Chris@MooreAutomotive
Just my .02 and what I've seen...
~Chris@MooreAutomotive
I would like to see a corrected graph. Also smells a bit fishy that the OP took down the dyno graph that was blatantly showing the issues with boost.
Apr 9, 2012, 10:12 AM
#35
Boltz,
I understand you don't believe the gains. But as mentioned Chris can post corrected since you think it is a sham. Also, don't tell me its fishy when the image hosting site took off the pic. I reposted the same pic. I'll get retuned I'm sure in a bit and we can see that boost plot curve again to verify that it was indeed the dump responsible for the gain. I don't doubt it. The car ran much better after I put it on.
I welcome your views, but just don't turn it to a conspiracy theory.
Thanks!
I understand you don't believe the gains. But as mentioned Chris can post corrected since you think it is a sham. Also, don't tell me its fishy when the image hosting site took off the pic. I reposted the same pic. I'll get retuned I'm sure in a bit and we can see that boost plot curve again to verify that it was indeed the dump responsible for the gain. I don't doubt it. The car ran much better after I put it on.
I welcome your views, but just don't turn it to a conspiracy theory.
Thanks!
Apr 9, 2012, 11:04 AM
#36
Definitely disagree on that being a choke point.
It seems pretty obvious that what is going on here is not relief in back-pressure but the wastegate being restricted. Hence why boost isn't flat and is creeping. Choke the wastegate and sure, you will make more power. Nice looking piece but
I would like to see a corrected graph. Also smells a bit fishy that the OP took down the dyno graph that was blatantly showing the issues with boost.
It seems pretty obvious that what is going on here is not relief in back-pressure but the wastegate being restricted. Hence why boost isn't flat and is creeping. Choke the wastegate and sure, you will make more power. Nice looking piece but
I would like to see a corrected graph. Also smells a bit fishy that the OP took down the dyno graph that was blatantly showing the issues with boost.
I'll post the corrected graph in a little bit.
~Chris@MooreAutomotive
Apr 10, 2012, 12:48 PM
#40
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Boltz,
I understand you don't believe the gains. But as mentioned Chris can post corrected since you think it is a sham. Also, don't tell me its fishy when the image hosting site took off the pic. I reposted the same pic. I'll get retuned I'm sure in a bit and we can see that boost plot curve again to verify that it was indeed the dump responsible for the gain. I don't doubt it. The car ran much better after I put it on.
I welcome your views, but just don't turn it to a conspiracy theory.
Thanks!
I understand you don't believe the gains. But as mentioned Chris can post corrected since you think it is a sham. Also, don't tell me its fishy when the image hosting site took off the pic. I reposted the same pic. I'll get retuned I'm sure in a bit and we can see that boost plot curve again to verify that it was indeed the dump responsible for the gain. I don't doubt it. The car ran much better after I put it on.
I welcome your views, but just don't turn it to a conspiracy theory.
Thanks!
How would it be the wastegate being restricted? If you have a lot of back-pressure in the turbo/exhaust it will not be able to produce boost past a certain level. Tell you what, put a 2" downpipe on your car and see what boost it's running, then change it out to a 3", bet you'll see an increase in boost without touching anything else.
I'll post the corrected graph in a little bit.
~Chris@MooreAutomotive
I'll post the corrected graph in a little bit.
~Chris@MooreAutomotive
Pressure ratios are important and yes, a very high P/R will hinder the performance of the car, but your example of changing the downpipe isn't an apples to apples comparison. If you have too high a P/R because your exhaust is too small and you change the exhaust to a more efficient unit, then you will be able to boost more, safely. The difference between that and this (and the way I can discern between the two) is in the boost curve. In the downpipe example you mentioned, you would have a stable boost curve. What we are seeing is a completely unstable boost curve. The BC/WG are not able to do their job. Seeing as the only change in setup is the dump, it is clear that the design is not allowing the wastegate to properly flow. Thus you see an increase in boost because the path of least resistance is now the turbine wheel which ultimately increases your boost level, increasing power numbers yes, but it is actually from poor flow on the w/g side, not from increased flow on the turbine outlet side.
Boltz
Apr 10, 2012, 01:18 PM
#41
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^^^ very nice post boltz.
from reading your post then you can say that if you are running an fp black or an internal wastegated bigger turbo you would then need a dump to make these type of gains.
im sure using the stock turbo would not yield gains like an fp black. simply because the stock turbo will not flow enough to cause too much back pressure.
That would mean that anyone pushing 30+ psi on a fp black or similar turbo should see similar gains from using a dump.
from reading your post then you can say that if you are running an fp black or an internal wastegated bigger turbo you would then need a dump to make these type of gains.
im sure using the stock turbo would not yield gains like an fp black. simply because the stock turbo will not flow enough to cause too much back pressure.
That would mean that anyone pushing 30+ psi on a fp black or similar turbo should see similar gains from using a dump.
Last edited by civicej8; Apr 10, 2012 at 01:20 PM.
Apr 10, 2012, 03:56 PM
#42
Interesting views boltz. I believe chris mentioned we should log boost more accurately with an omni bar to really see the boost plot more accurately. It'll be getting built later so I'll just see what it can make after 2 more parts. t/b + im and perhaps electronic boost to get better control. If it still gives a strange boost plot such as this I'll deal with it then.
Civice, the fp black seems to gain greatly from a dump from what i've seen.
Civice, the fp black seems to gain greatly from a dump from what i've seen.
Apr 10, 2012, 06:44 PM
#44
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Interesting views boltz. I believe chris mentioned we should log boost more accurately with an omni bar to really see the boost plot more accurately. It'll be getting built later so I'll just see what it can make after 2 more parts. t/b + im and perhaps electronic boost to get better control. If it still gives a strange boost plot such as this I'll deal with it then.
Civice, the fp black seems to gain greatly from a dump from what i've seen.
Civice, the fp black seems to gain greatly from a dump from what i've seen.