New map ef4 bolt on turbo & short runner manifold: Beta tester on built 2.4 evo 8
 

UPDATES!!Sorry for not updating this thread. The car went through some upgrades and we needed to fix several electrical issues. The updates from ERKL will resume on page 14. New Dyno Video and Graph

I just figure that I start a new thread about my beta test on my MAP EF4 Turbo that I just received in the mail today. I sold my FP Black for this turbo to see if there is something bigger and badder out there in the world of stock frame turbos. In terms of cost it is the same price as the BLACK. The BLACK has set the standard for stock frame turbos but it is nice to see a new kid on the block.

In the next few weeks I hope to see some dyno runs on this turbo and give you guys a hint of what it is capable of. However your results may vary since my car is built top to bottom and it is a 2.4 motor. I understand that this forum can get pretty heated with specific users who only swear by someones parts. I am not sponsored by any one shop in particular (only for the labor on the engine build by a local shop) and I bought every part on my car full retail from over a dozen sources including ebay. It has been a 1.5 year build process starting with a rolling chassis and a blown motor so it wasn't a walk in the park. Almost everything has been changed out from the original car. Delays, waiting for parts, redo's and frustration and I can now see the light at the end of the tunnel. I could have bought a turn key car but what is the fun in that? It has been a big learning experience and I wouldn't pass up the experience over anything.

I hope that you will keep your comments focused and unbiased on this turbo and I will try to answer any personal questions if I know the answers. I am also using the new MAP short runner robotically tig welded manifold. It looks like a good revision of the TOMEI manifold that costs an arm and a leg. It comes with a 1 year warranty from MAP against cracking.

To start off this is what the EF4 turbo looks like out of the box. It was well packaged and it comes with a complete oil line kit as pictured at no extra charge. MAP uses a billet wastegate actuator instead of a stock stamped steel one. I am not sure about the reliability of this wastegate yet (I guess the vaccum nipple is stronger and less prone to breaking off) but that is what real world beta testing is for. Oh I nearly forgot I also opted for the ported option on the hotside by BOB.

Specs on the Motor: This is a NON MIVEC HEAD EVO 8
4G64 Engine Built by UCS Performance
Off the shelf 9.5:1 Wieseco HD Pistons w/ Swain Coatings
Manley Turbo Tuff Rods - Regular length
OEM 100MM Crank
Cosworth/Headgames Head - Full Ferrera Bee Hive Springs 1mm over
AMS 88mm 4G63 Headgasket - Stock Overbore for the 2.4.
MAP L-19 Headstuds
MUSE O2 Dump from VRSF Tiago. Modded to fit AMS oil pan
Full 3" Custom Turbo Back Exhaust - No Cats but 3 Mufflers with modded stock OEM muffler sounds stock
GSC S3 Cams from VRSF Tiago
Synapse DV - Great BOV
Fidanza Cam Gears
AMS/Moroso Oil Pan modified the oil drain to AN Fitting & Clearance Scraper
AMS Oil Cooler
Magnus V5 Manifold -plate bored out to 70mm to match FB TB
Full Blown 70mm TB
SpoolinUp COP
Buschur Double Pumper
FIC 2150's
4" Custom Hybrid Core Intercooler
SD - Speed Density with Omni 4 BAR
AWD Driveshaft
Shep Ult. Ratio Gearbox 4:11 Final Drive - ISF Process
Shep TC Case with Quaife - ISF Process
Shep Rear Diff - 12 pack
3 Row Koyo Radiator
New Style Version 2 Competition Twin Disc Clutch

Suspension
Ohlins FLAG Coilovers with Swift Springs - Thanks Works
Full Poly Bushings
Swift Sway Bars
Whiteline all around
Stock Axles - Only thing left from the original drivetrain lol
Attachment 314482
Attachment 314483
Attachment 314484
Attachment 314485
Attachment 314486
Attachment 314487
Attachment 314488
Attachment 314489
Attachment 314490

Looking forward to the results!

In on the first page!!

Subscribed. Greg does great work.

Man that was fast! Erkl this is Mike the road racer from Virginia we have talked on the phone many times. Glad you could chime in...

I am jealous of your 2.4 setup, very nice...Looking forward to results...

Nice!!! can't wait for results.

What 02 Manifold are you using? Dump?

Good luck man.

Invidia 3" O2

Yes Greg at UCS Performance does excellent work. I would recommend him as one of the top EVO shops in the DC Metro area. It is rare to find a shop that exclusively works on Mitsubishi Cars as their main line of business. Most shops will work on a least a half dozen brands to make ends meet.

Subscribed

I'm curious to see how this all comes together... Have you raced this season yet?

Looks good. I like that fact that the feed line is included. The new manifold looks cool as well. It looks like it has the molding to still scavange pulses like the stock manilfold. {thumbup}

No the car has been down and once this car is tuned it will be the first time that I will be driving it for real. So everything is fresh including the motor and drivetrain. It has gone through quite a few changes. Can't seem to make up my mind so its my fault..lol. Just finished its break in with the Black.

michael k ? nm got my answer

I like how they took the time to blend in the runners to the flange. No bumps or junk(slag) in the runners like the cheesy Megan manifolds. Runners are also hand welded on the inside as well. Quality piece for $449.00 shipped. Looks like they used a lost wax method to make the runners like Tomei.

I'd probably use a different manifold. Looks like a GTSpec which that style never worked well.

They made 722whp with the manifold so it couldn't be that bad. Was not interested in a long runner Schedule 10 heavy setup and spending an additional $500 bucks. However, I did another double take and you are right it is the GT Spec Header without the tag. You can tell by the flanges they used. I just need the larger runners nothing fancy. Anyway for $449.00 and a warranty you can't beat it. Not looking for a miracle at that price.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ve...in-scroll.html

Been waiting for a thread on this for a bit, can't wait to c

Awesome build{thumbup}{thumbup} What machining work is needed to the cylinderhead in order to use it on a 2.4L(4G64)block??? I know you need camgears and a timing belt for a 4G64...

Thanks. I used the AMS Headgasket for the build. I know that there are people who have used the Power Enterprise and Cometic Gaskets as well. The stock OEM gasket is known to be very reliable so why reinvent the wheel? Yes you need camgears to degree the cams and a 4G64 timing belt and waterpump. I didn't use a spacer they tend to leak and cause problems. I didn't try to o-ring the block because the overlap on the cylinder walls are quite thin as it is. L-19 studs definitely recommended. I tried to use all off the shelf pistons rods etc. in case something broke. There is nothing fancy with the build except for the excellent head work that David at Headgames did to the new Cosworth head I gave him to play with.

The head for the EVO 8 just bolts on. If you have an EVO 9 you need an oil line kit for the MIVEC.

Keep me posted Michael!

Adam,

I will. Turbo and intake will be most likely be installed this weekend. Still need to fab an upper pipe for the Magnus. Next will be street tuning for driveability then dynoing. Give or take a couple weeks when you see power runs so please be patient.

Trust me, It's not I that is the impatient one..... Have a look around ;)

lol..... Will this fit my Segway as well?

Yahhh like seriously . Within 3 Min of posting this thread all the major heavy hitters/tuners on EVOM were all over this like flies over dead meat. Barely had a chance to finish my response. lol

I will promise that this thread won't die like a lot of these tests go. I had to buy this turbo since I couldn't find any outside results yet. lol... I am one of those impatient ones as well.:)

You never dyno'd the car on the black correct?

Yes I did but a low boost for a break in on the dyno. Anyway it doesn't matter because since then (last year) I have changed everything out. New S3 Cams, Magnus Intake Manifold, Throttle Body and now the turbo. I think the Black has been dynoed enough. There are plenty of threads on them including Tom's@VRSF Owen Development Dual Ball Bearing Black that is due for the dyno soon. Time for some new numbers on a new turbo.

In for updates! Cant wait to see what map turbos dish out

I think what Fast Freddie was getting at is that you can't give a direct comparison on your car.

Yes that is true. Unfortunately I don't have the unlimited resources to do a back to back test unless someone wants to give me a black to bolt on and pay to swap the turbo/retune then I wouldn't mind. I am sure someone will do that in the near future. Hey Tom do you want to lend me your DBB Black turbo?lol

It will be nice to see some results none the less. The car sounds like a good canidate to see what the turbo can do.

What psi do you plan on taking it up to?

Tom, I would like to borrow your turbo after cul8tr :lol:

35ish psi prob or whatever he wants.


no ones borrowing nothing lol. if it performs the same as the journal bearing design im gonna be so upset lol. blowing all that $.

LOL!!! Can't wait to see your results as well Tom. I hope you didn't blow it for nothing. BB is great for durability in a rally or road racing application where high sustained EGT's are the norm. Believe me I have blown my share of Journal Bearing turbos so I know what they can and cannot do.

Yeah that is all I was getting at was to see if there was going to be a direct comparison... o well stil in for results...

i was running 37psi then did 5 more turns on the mbc and bye bye the turbo went lol. glanced at gauge on a few runs and seen 46+psi.

this ef4 should be fine at 33psi id think.. i think we should target for that boost level.

i dont really do any rally or road racing.. just driving like an ******* on public roads.. atleast they are backroads though. :lol:

well we can always compare the basic 2.4 and black.. which gets pk tq by around 4400rpm and holds power out till redline on a proper build.. so we can atleast compare spool and mid range etc in general. i think its gonna be very similar based on what ive seen already though.

ive got another one of these turbos on a stock block to do also, so stock displacement results shortly also on speed density as well.

Nice!!! I was gonna make a thread later this evening for my EF 4/lr 2.4 build. Were similar with a few small exceptions, the biggest being Im MIVEC. My motor is going together now at my friends and I just got my turbo today from FedEx.

oh oh oh that would be me me me oh oh oh get the car tuned lets go go go go hahhahaha wheres my parts, wheres my injectors...... turbo is already on the car tune tune tune hahaha

i saw your car over at Moore today when i picked mine up from getting tuned... GL bro and hope all goes well

sub'd

Thanks! Can't wait to get the goodies put on. I just had the Magnus intake plate machined out with a CNC. There was about 7mm of aluminum material to take out. Not sure what a larger TB will do but it can't hurt since the hole is bigger. A nice trick I did was to get a couple dabs of Gorilla Super Glue on the TB screws. Gorilla is impact resistent like an epoxy unlike regular super glue which kinda just flakes off. After hearing what happened to David Buschurs personal car I think that is safe insurance to prevent a from a screw backing out and taking out your motor. I also had the MAP sensor bung that comes with the manifold welded to the intake manifold as well. It keeps the setup clean and simple. Thankfully all the newer Magnus V5 manifolds come with a welded in bung to mount the dipstick. If you look closely at the left side of the pic you can see it.
Attachment 314491
Attachment 314492

I read that about buschur :( not cool...great idea with the super glue!! It was really brave of him to post up what he did knowing what the consequences could be

if that magnus v5 was a direct swap bolt in it would be on my car its one of the best intake manifolds for the evo period.. and that full blown TB is damn nice.. i almost got one but didnt, cause in order to make it right i would need to send my map rev3 back to map and get it reflanged/ported for that tb.

Good Luck can't wait to see the comparison between EVO 8 & 9

I was really up in the air about it as well since I read that it does take a little more work to install. When the car was at AWD Mike told me to upgrade the intake manifold cause that was really holding back the big power. I got an excellent deal on the manifold and it came with a Magnus fuel rail so it made me pull the trigger. I thought about the Skunk 2 since Curt Brown made it work and it had more midrange, but I found out that he did a ton of work on it to make it work. I asked Curt if he could make me one but he said no. I talked to MAP about doing a port job on a skunk but the cost of the porting plus the intake make it more expensive than getting a Magnus. At least I know that the Magnus works out of the box and it fixes the uneven distribution of the cylinders problem that you have with the stock intake manifold. I originally had a REV 2 on the car but unless you get the Map REV 3 it doesn't solve that problem. I have seen quite a few motor with miles on them that show a lower compression reading on one cylinder (I think it is #3 right?) that is due to a leaner mixture that one cylinder gets over time.

skunk2 sucks as it is without modification.. multiple vendors on here confirmed that. i did not know that about the stock intake manifold.. i have a rev3 myself.

{thumbup}

Yes I have seen or done about 25 EVO's for leak down and compression tests over the years and some motors are just freaks out of the factory and make sick power and some are just weak. I remember a guy who we tuned who had very little mods (stock Evo 8 turbo, 2.5 downpipe) run an 11.20 sec @122mph with just cams and bolt ons/tune on pump full weight with crappy tires/suspension. The car was a freak and we could not explain it. That was 5 years ago. All were mostly maintained properly. There is great inconsistency in the quality control of each motor. Some last and are total animals and wont break and some throw a rod when you push them a little.

I have seen it all and can't believe how each EVO has a different personality.

The stock intake manifold is well known for its uneven air distribution isssues. That is why you see Wilson and MAP cut the plenum off and reshape the interior (just read the before and after flow numbers and you can clearly see that they try to correct the distribution issue by bank). You can ask Bob, Magnus, Buschur, Curt or anyone. Since we cannot control individual fuel trim on each injector on the stock ecu tuners just compensate by just adding a few points richer to the tune to cool the motor down. That is why the stock tune is so bad to begin with. It is honestly a band aid fix in my opinion. But as you know too rich has its consequences too and I have seen motors with premature worn rings with few miles. A quick rering job usually fixes it but all the issues are the cause of the stock intake manifold to begin with. One thing leads to another.

The whole thing is a crap shoot in my opinion. lol

The Rev 2 is ported similar to the Rev 3 as far as runner taper goes in the plenum, we just cannot reach the backside of the runners in order to put the vertical taper on the top to get rid of all the imbalance.

Adam,

Good stuff man. The stock intake manifold still makes the best usable power in my opinion but it does need work to get it working right. I just wanted to have a better conversation piece to talk about when you open the hood...lol:lol:

For people who don't know they think the car with the magnus bolted on makes an additional 300whp right? The thing is huge! Kinda like 20hp stickers.

Apparently Chris from MAP is recalling all the 25psi billet wastegate actuators. There is a coil bind in the actuator that prevents it from opening completely causing a boost spike to 32psi. This fix is supposed to take a week or so. I'd recommend to wait for the fix.

Like I said please be patient for the results. Will update you guys if anything new happens.

Thanks
Mike

lmfao.

It will be longer then a week or so I garentee it. Knowing Chris like I do these things wont leave the shop till he is 100% satisfied with them.

That is the point ;) We had good luck with the way the actuators were coming, then we discovered the spring was starting to bind after a decent amount of fully open pulls. Shouldn't be more than a week, testing alllll next week ;)

Wheres the dyno graph? I feel like I'm in the wrong forum :)

Yeah but the 32PSI spike sure was fun!!! So was holding 30 PSI at redline!!! This thing sure has Potential just gotta work out the kinks.

This thread thus far has some very enlightening information. Here it is, I am thinking that this was an EF4-only discussion but here it is, I get some nice details and throttle bodies and intake manifolds. I, too, am patient as I know that greatness does not happen overnight. You have an outstanding build with quality parts, bar none. By the way, I am in training right now in McLean. How far away is Great Falls?

Glad I could shine some light into the matter. I found the current information on intake manifolds very scattered and not always easy to filter the real data. Even though many dyno tests have been done to prove its worth on the top end, most people lately are looking for power under the curve. I think the Magnus works well for stroker motors much better. I think if you are running a 2.0 a stock style manifold will work better unless you are planning on dragging the car and revving to 10k. The Magnus is not for everyone. I decided to add the intake discussion to the EF4 in this thread to make things easier for the next guy who thinks this is the only solution to more power. I also like the Rev 3 very much. I think that manifold has the right balance and it actually makes a good attempt to correct the factory design flaws with the reshaping of the runners. As we already know sheet metal intakes are just not reliable enough for daily use. I have had my share of blown welds.

Yes Great Falls is about 10min from McLean. I live just down the street from Tysons Corner.

Good info all around, Im in for updates.

Did you hurt anything with that spike?

Any number yet on this nice set up ????

Haven't read the whole thread so maybe I missed it, but where do you race and with what organization?

I can't thank you guys enough for your patience thusfar, this actuator situation is exactly why we decided to do this beta testing. I've got two new springs on my desk at this very moment, I'm going to do my best to make good on that one week timeline :)

Always good to see a product getting better.{thumbup}

Car is a daily driver street car. I usually race at Summit Point (FATT instructor) and at NASA NE Pocono events but it has been about a few years since I last got behind the wheel. Won the Unlimited Class TTR NASA Nationals in 2007 Mid Ohio Pro Course. Just missed the Real Time Attack event at Pocono. Car could have won that event easily... ohh well just got to be patient.

Some fun pics of my road racing past. Something to past the time by on this post until I get that actuator back enjoy!
2009 RTA
Attachment 314493
Attachment 314494
Attachment 314495
Attachment 314496
Attachment 314497
Attachment 314498
Attachment 314499

I hope Chris can get that actuator fixed asap. I have it ready to send it back.

Yes but its already fixed ;) I like to keep a lotta spare parts around racing is very hard on cars. I was by myself in the car so that was the highest i saw (coulda been more) and shut it down right away apparantly i wasnt fast enough.

No not yet. If you read the post we are waiting for Chris to fix the actuator.

five pages and no dyno chart. I know patience is a virtue, but I thought this was dyno thread

Cant be worse the the BW EFR thread.

Its really just a progress/build thread. The turbo hasn't officially been released yet, so once turbo is released. It will come with plenty numbers ;)

:updown: lol That is sooo true...

Link to said thread lol.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...bo-thread.html

Honestly it looks so good on paper. I was even thinking about getting one but the price point, availability (or lack thereof) and the size of the actual hairdryer had me decide not to wait. Glad I made that decision.

I think the model choice (8374) is one alot of people are waiting on. I think all models were supposed to be released sometime in April. Here we are in July and 1 is on a car that is changing setup, another in the for sale forums (Both the smaller version)........and still no dyno plots. At this point I'm just curious as to the numbers. I'm not considering one any more but still........

I tuned a EF3 on Saturday. The car needs to be more sorted out but so far I am impressed with this turbo for what it is.

Looking forward to these EF4 results.

Care to elaborate a tad more Bryan?

razorlab you mind posting up your results and the mods of the car and your impressions as far as spool up and etc.

X3. I'm in for any results.

Me and Tom should be tuning my EF4 setup this weekend.

my setup is

built motor 2.0 10:1
E85
Kelford 272
Port and Polished head super tech dual springs, stock size valves
Ported intake and exhaust manifolds, milspec TB
ETS 3.5 wide tank IC
FIC 1450
Buschur Double Pumper


those are all the power mods i can think of if there is more ill post up. Very excited to get this thing rolling car has been down for about 6 weeks.

Cant wait for the results.

Can't wait to see what you guys come up with. Are you tuning with the 18psi wastegate that is available now?

The turbo is bolted on right now just waiting for the wastegate.

Man 38 pages and no dyno chart. So they told everyone that they are selling this great turbo but there are none to sell? I wonder if the turbo will fit in a car with A/C or do you need to get rid of it? I heard the turbo is so physically big that you will need to move some things around.

At least we got our EF4's in the promised time frame and they bolt in like stock.
If this goes on more than one week I am going to get a FP Wastegate and bolt it on ......lol

My turbo was there while they were waiting for the new gates to come in. So I'm assuming i have the news one. I don't plan on running under 30lbs of boost anyway {thumb up}. Well i guess that will be Tom's call.

My car is all buttoned up just waiting for my new ETS IC to come in.

I suggest you check with Chris and Tom about your wastegate before you spend the time effort and money to tune. When tuning you typically start with low boost and work you way up in steps. If you are stuck at 30psi+ base pressuure it is not going to work and you risk hurting your motor or HG. I plan to run about the same amount of boost as well but I am waiting for the fixed actuator to come to be safe.

Good Luck!{thumbup}

Already spoke with him :)

Biggest reason I'm not in the waiting line for this turbo was the size. Physically wouldn't have worked with the manifold I have so I decided to go with one of the regular choices.

Yea that was one of my major concerns as well, losing a/c with a daily just isnt worth it for the gains.

Back On Topic:

Do you think the EF4 will hold up on a 2.3L or even a 2.0L in terms of response , to be more specific , for road racing. Or would the EF3 be a better choice?

The EF3 I tuned was on a 2.3L. It works just dandy. I'm not posting any results yet because there are some things to sort out on the car.

I know it sucks to not see any data yet but I feel it's not showing the true potential of the turbo yet and I know how easily people jump to conclusions on the internet so....

I agree, not everyone can see information for what it is. I think this will be a great option for those wanting to stay with a stock frame turbo.

My injectors should be here today and the couplers soon so I am sure I will be tuning mine within the next few days hopefully. Mind you I am using my old sst wastegate actuator being Chris and the gang are working on getting the bugs worked out of the one that came with my ef4.

You don't want a soft wastegate to open too early and hurt torque and peak horsepower. Better to wait, but if you want to be the first to post any numbers be my guest.

Springs will be here tomorrow and I hope to have replacements on the way to you guys tomorrow as well :)

I am well aware of that, but I am doing as I was asked to do for the time being. My car wont be 100% tuned but be enough to get the new injectors dialed in and ready to make some pulls. I have a 25 psi wg acuator from my old sst turbo and being i know its different was asked to use it part time till they figure out everything. Injectors got backed up yet again and I flew off the handle being this time it is fedex's problem. I had them next day aired being I prob wont get alot of time this week to work on the car so they were suppose to be here this past saturday, well problems arise and my next day shipping broke down and wont be here till tomorrow. So I for one am not happy.

I take it the tests went well with what you had on your desk the other day?

^ If you already have a 25PSI one That should be all you need , That should help hold boost up top plenty!

This thread should be in engine/turbo/drivetrain as their are 0 dyno graphs as of now.

I, for one, appreciate all of the information. Did I misunderstand the post about "not being able to use my A/C with the EF4"?

^Yes you missunderstood.
They were refering to the BorgWarner EFR series of turbos which have HUGE housings . And also need custom manifolds to make them fit.
All the EF series are true Stockframe turbos they dont require you to remove Your AC. And will bolt into your stock manifold and piping , Minus the intake pipe on the 3,4 .

I appreciate it.

{offtopic}


That being said, I do not see how in the world the BW-series will be popular considering so much "other" stuff is needed to make them work.

If they are as revolutionary as they claim they should be then I can def. see people sacrificing alot to run it. FP Black or FP Red spool up with HTA86/HTA94/6262/6265/6765 power.