Thanks. Their install looks almost stock in the car.

Buzzes and rattles drive me up a wall, so killing the vibration in the door cards was a major priority.

Correct.

I also used SDS' single-sided Velcro and their recommended adhesive to mount the CCF. This way, it's very easy to remove the foam, should the need arise.

Along with deadening the back of the door cards, I took a single CLD tile, cut it in half length-wise, painted it black, and attached it to the inside wall of the door pocket (the back of the section facing the cabin). It covered almost the entire span of the pocket.

As long as you keep in mind that deadener is there to kill vibrations, and that it has little impact of surfaces that are rigid by design, you'll be OK.

I did want to mention something about sealing the doors. As a rule of thumb, rigidity and audio go together, not necessarily to be confused with mass. When you seal the doors, it is best to make it as ridgid as possible. As the outer door skins have large holes in the sheetmetal, one can cut sheetmetal/aluminum/plastic to size and use it to cover the holes, braced with deadening material. Now, the degree of rigidity depends on how much air is moved by the speakers. As you're not building a SPL system, you can forgo sealing the holes with solid material if you wish, though it is not a bad idea to take this as far as you're comfortable with, and just use a sheet of quality deadening.

The benefits derived from speaker positioning, setup/tuning, and their environment have a bigger impact on sound quality than the speakers, themselves. It's one of the few things that are always true in audio, regardless of application.

 

Thanks so much for that thorough explanation. Sealing up my doors will be my first mission. As I mentioned before I would love to throw in some better speakers in the door while the card is removed. Do you have any recommendations for a good set of speakers that would pair up well with my factory amp?

 

I'd consider these:

Alpine SPX-17Ref (I'd include the Pro version, as well, but you'd be better off putting the difference in price toward a DSP-driven HU)
Boston S/SL/SX/Pro60

FWIW, I'm about to list a mint set of Pro60s on CA.com. BA's S/SL-series would be easiest to drive. As I mentioned, I don't know anything about the factory amp, but I wouldn't be surprised if it contained a fixed EQ (meaning, set an a given frequency). As such, it may alter the response of the speakers.

 

I was actually looking at both the S60 and Sx60. I find it hard to pick out audio components as for one I am not nearly educated enough on the topic. Not to mention the fact that it seems the specs can be altered to make something look better than it actually is. So which numbers are actually important? I think I recall reading a thread that stated a sensitive speaker is better suited in an evo. I assume the power range is another important spec? What else should i be keeping my eye on?

I think for now I want to spend about 200 bucks for both speakers and sound deadening material. Since it looks like I will be keeping my factory amp for the time being, im gunna need a versatile set of speakers that will work well with my current amp yet have room to grow.

 

Good questions. I'm afraid that I can't offer equally good answers. Audio spec sheets are useless. They offer just a touch of information with a lot of fluff tossed in. Sensitivity, often and incorrectly referred to as efficiency, is one of the numbers that can be played with, and it's also the only spec with a somewhat defined (applied) meaning.

I've been trying to think of a least confusing way to explain this. Sensitivity if either gauged per 1watt or 2.83V (ie. at 8 Ohms, 1w=2.83V). At 4 Ohms, where most car audio speakers live, 2watts = 2.83V. Let's look at common scenario:

Speaker 1: 4 Ohms, claimed 91dB at 1w sensitivity
Speaker 2: 4 Ohms, claimed 91dB at 2.83V sensitivity

Which of these will play louder with 1 watt of power? We know that Speaker 1 is rated at 91dB/1w. Using the same scale, Speaker 2 (though listed at 91dB) is actually 88dB/1w. All things being equal, it will play 3dB lower than Speaker 1.

Similarly, let's look at amplifiers. Say, an amp is rated at 100wpc at 8 Ohms and 150wpc at 4 Ohms. All things being equal, it will push more power into 4 Ohms, but does the "additional" power translate into a louder system? No, it doesn't. At 8 Ohms, the speaker need 1 watt of power to reach its specified sound level, but at 4 Ohms it needs 2 watts to reach the same volume. As no amplifier is a perfect voltage source, exemplified by the power ratings, the system will sound less powerful when the amplifier is supposedly putting out more power. Did that make sense?


If it were me, I'd grab my favorite recordings and go listen to some speakers at a local store to get a gauge on the sound and my own preferences. Really, in the Evo, most of the sonic gains (if you will) will stem from tuning the system.

 

Agree with boostwhore. Adding an amp is worth. I'm an MECP installer and I work at best buy. I often get people in here who think I'm just trying to make money off of them. Sometimes I will take them outside to my car and let them listen to it. It's definately worth the investment.

 

Hey FJF what do you think of the new Kenwood HU's?

My brother just picked up http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Kenwood+-+50W+x+4+MOSFET+Apple%26%23174%3B+iPod%26%23174%3B-/Satellite+Radio-Ready+In-Dash+CD+Deck/9760651.p?id=1218168619453&skuId=9760651 for his DSM and that HU looks awesome. Not only do I really dig the flat black face plate, but the functionality of the unit is really impressing me so far.

 

FJF thanks so much for the thorough explanation. Your examples explaining the math behind it not only makes sense, but it also confirms my suspicions. It really makes it hard to compare apples to apples.

I am getting the feeling that I will notice the greatest improvements from sealing up my front doors. I would prefer to only take off the door cards once even though it isnt a hard task since the more times I fidget with it the greater chance I have of breaking something. Given my limited budget would you personally replace the speakers? Wouldnt a really sensitive speaker still work pretty well with my factory amp?

I would take your advice and go to a local store to get an idea of what different speakers sound like however last time I did something along those lines the setup sounded much different once installed in the car. The enclosures which the speakers were mounted in gave the speakers significantly more base. On top of that, I am mostly interested in speakers which are discontinued as they can be had for much cheaper from different online sources. Therefore most places most likely not even have those speakers to sample...

 

No, I wouldn't.

Yes, it should, but to what end? There are three (sonic) aspects to consider: amplitude/dynamics (ie.volume), frequency response, and resolution. In terms of dynamics, it's a wash. The overall frequency response is a wash, as well, where the stock excel on the bottom end and an aftermarket product would have more extension on top. Once the car is moving, however, these attributes are effectively erased. Then there's resolution. To get a car system to resolve as much information as a half-way decent home system, one essentially needs a setup like mine. Mind you, that's when the car is standing still. Once the car is moving, the "goodness," if you will, decreases at an increasing rate.

I understand your hesitation to remove the door cards more than necessary. I feel exactly the same way. Don't get me wrong, an aftermarket speaker like the BA SL-series will sound better than stock, no question. In cars like ours, the magnitude of the difference is effectively shot by the environment, but that doesn't mean that you won't prefer the sound. I guess I'm trying to say that if you really want to replace the speakers, do it.

 

I appreciate your honest opinion and respect what you have to say so once again thanks for the responses. As I originally stated I am happy with my current setup however am always looking to improve. In an ideal situation I would replace my amp, seal up my doors and replace the speakers. That is not realistic for me so I would prefer to take it in stages.

I am not looking for perfect sound but rather an improvement. I see this as the same senario as modifying the car for performance reasons. I could throw a nice new turbo on the car and it will probably make more power however without the proper supporting mods it will not be able to work to its maximum potential.

 

what is a good forum that talks about car audio and has a good classified section?

 

Truthfully, they all suck. DIYMA.com is your best bet for semi-educated discussion. Caraudio.com is a lot of fun, but not exactly learned in its scope. It's essentially moderated, if you like that sort of thing. I do. Both forums have good classified sections.

 

seems like you know alot abut car audio. what should i look for when buying front companant speakers and an amp. i want loud so i can hear it with the windows down. and a clear sound. i listen to punk/ rock music

 

classified are a joke. you have go on ebay and buy the same for 10 more and brand new shipped

 

What gear are you looking for? I have a bunch of high quality car audio equipment sitting around that I'd sell at a good price. Shoot me a PM.