SPEAKERS I WOULD GO WITH HERTZ http://www.ebay.com/itm/HERTZ-HI-ENE...b153bd&vxp=mtr


AND A HEADUNIT I WOULD USE A KENWOOD I WENT WITH A KIV-701 AND I LOVE IT! http://www.amazon.com/Kenwood-Kiv-70...2368706&sr=8-2

 

I already purchased the 8400, only difference was the flap face and extra rear USB, which to me did not justify the extra money. Plus I am excited about the mixtrax, gf saw the pretty lights it produced and said "ooooo that one." Since she's paying for it how could I say no after narrowing it down to these two. I will be using the iphone side of it and will probably never notice if the cd player is defunked. Appreciate the info. It seems like most people on the forum seem to down talk the alpine components, to each is own right?

 

My buddy wanted me to go with a kenwood but all the single din units had front USB. I want to extend USB from rear and stick
in the glove box, don't want messy cables in front. The nice thing about the head unit is that it comes with the extender and can run with just the simple iPhone cable. I was kind of shocked how many units lacked rear USB.

 

I take it you just want to look at car audio drivers. That's fine.

<grin> Wattage specs are irrelevant. If you can find someone who can explain what they actually mean, in an applied sense, I'd love to hear it. I mentioned sensitivity, meaning, the volume of the driver (typically rated) at 2.83V. That 2.83V can be states in different ways, depending on the goal of the manufacturer. Almost everything on a spec sheet is there as a sales tool with no real audio meaning. As a kind of a rule of thumb in car audio, the lower the power handling spec, the higher the sensitivity. Second rule of thumb in car audio, don't expect anyone to actually know anything about err... audio. FWIW, sensitivity and efficiency are sometimes used interchangeably even though they're two different concepts.

BTW, the XD700/5 is rated at ~180w @ 4 Ohms (sub channel). In the real world of audio it would be called a 100 watt amp. Maybe.

 

[quote=FJF;10050382]I take it you just want to look at car audio drivers. That's fine.

Yes, I will look but would definitely appreciate what you think would be a good choice. I was just trying to say that most of the 8" and 10" sub have been well within my price range.

As you can tell from my questions I also do not understand car audio, but have installed a system before, and designed/built a fairly difficult sub box.

 

So I think I figured it out. I am going to fit a 10.... well hopefully.

I chose this sub:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...-SW2501S2%7CS4

I plan on doing a box similar to yours FJF but instead of avoiding the hump (horizontally oriented/perpendicular to the direction of the car), I am going to utilize the hump and extend parallel in the direction of the car (front to back). I was on pioneers website and saw this product which gave me the idea:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...lles/UD-SW100D
I will pretty much mimic the design but modify in it a way so that the down firing sub will be centered in the area between the hump and the front part of the seat. My measurements show that the sub will just barely fit in that area, and it will allow for a very small ammount of room for the cone to flex Therefore the box depth will be about 4 1/2", and I will use the vertical area (front of car to back of car) to ensure there is enough internal volume. This will limit the width of the box but allow for more vertical length. Depending upon the thickness of MDF (i plan on using 1/2" or 5/8") used I should be able to easily allow for atleast .35 cubic feet (minimum recommended volume), but if I extend the length I could allow for .45 cubic feet (recommended volume).

I am going to build a cardboard preview for fitment this weekend. I will update this weekend .

 

That's a very interesting choice. Seriously. Hope you can make the enclosure work. If all goes well, maybe you could build one for me, too.

I download the owner's manual, which didn't give me any info to model the driver with, but it did supply a few graphs of its response. Going on that, it shouldn't make a night and day difference if the enclosure volume (including the displacement of the driver) is kinda close to the min spec.

 

http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchf...130TSS2501.PDF

Is this the same pdf you looked at? The sheet shows the same sensitivity on both 4 ohm and 2 ohm version, correct me if I'm am interpreting that incorrectly.

Should I get a 2 ohm or 4 ohm version of this sub? I will be using my JL 500/1 slashv2 most likely, which has like that constant power thing at what ever ohm.

If all goes well I would be happy to build you one.

Building the box is my favorite part, while the electronic side is not. I am sure I will be asking you or referring to your previous posts about a recommended amp wiring route.

 

I'd strongly suggest the 4 Ohm driver.

Hoping everything works out.

 

Ok, this is what I've come up with:
Left hand side

Right hand side

Inside of box, with hole cut for cone, not including trim.



Now, the hole on the inside of the box is where the cone (not trim) will be residing, I only cut that one side to check for clearance, and it is directly above the hump...... this does not account for the trim on the sub woofer, which is 3/4" deep. Now the dimension for this box are 17" x 11-3/4" x 3-7/8". I am measuring about 5/8" between the bottom of the box and the hump. So this box is theoretically (without sub in hand) only 1/8" too short. I calculated the internal volume to be approximately 0.379 cubic feet. I originally thought that I was going to be able and build it a little wider, but those brackets limited the size (see picture 1, and 2). Still I could probably squeeze another 1/4" on the width, but I am afraid if I go any further it might interfere with the hardware down there. I could still make the box a little longer (see picture 4), as I positioned it with my normal seat position. Again probably wont jack with it, as I would like for the box to be as stealthy as possible. The size of the box is just above the minimum recommended internal volume (0.35 ft2), so I will probably stay with these dimensions.

I am really happy with the fitment of the box but am just concerned about the clearance for the sub. I feel like it should fit fine but can't be certain unless I have the sub in hand. I also feel like if it didn't fit that I could remove some of that thick padding on the hump (maybe replace with some thin dynamat), or even reduce the height of the box very marginally (the height difference might even be able to be sanded down).

Now I am at a fork in the road. Try and squeeze a 10" sealed box, or shoot for a 8" ported box.

---------- I like the idea of a 10" because it will be able to handle more power (?JL 500/1 slashv2?) thus hopefully more powerful, clean bass. I also like the challenge - It would be awesome if I could produce some really hard hitting bass given such a small area.
(+) Power, already have a compatible amp, challenge.
(-) Might not fit, sealed box.

---------- I like the idea of a 8", because I have always enjoyed the sound of a ported box over one that is sealed. I also feel 100% confident in this option since my major hurdle with option 1 is trying to provide enough area for the sub to sit in between the front and the hump and fire downward. I have never been in a car with an 8" sub so I am a little scared that it might not provide me with the thump that I am looking for.
(+) Easily fits, ported box, compatible for larger volume while maintain stealth
(-) New amp (either 5 channel, or small mono), lower power handling.

I am really happy about either option, but feel like the 10" may be the way to go due to more power. Will the JL 500/1 amp be too much for the Pioneer TS SW2501S4? If it is I might lean a little more towards buying the 5 channel, but if this mono will work fine for the sub I would still purchase a 4 channel to power the speakers

 

That's not how audio works. Power handling isn't directly relevant to anything other than a sales tool, and power doesn't necessarily translate into amplitude. That's why I suggested looking for a sensitive driver. I thought that I explained all this in the link'd thread.

In this application, the port frequency lies below the enclosure's ability to support a given measure of extension without EQ. In other words, the box isn't large enough to generate bass deep enough to worry about as such.

As I've tried explaining over and over, this option won't provide you with "thump." It'll offer low-frequency reinforcement to make listening to music more enjoyable.

 

Yes, I understand that this is a sales tool, but its hard for me to believe that a driver with a peak wattage of 500 versus 1200 would be able to handle the same amount of power. I have also taken your advice and have only looked at drivers with high sensitivity, the pioneer is very similar in sensitivity in comparison to the SWS line. I am also looking into the SWS 10" but they don't provide very much information in the manual as to how wide the sub is (the pioneer seems to be the smallest).

Please help me understand this. Even though the box will lie within the recommended ported enclosure dimensions provided by Pioneer, the volume would not be large enough to provide the deep bass that people normally strive for in a ported enclosure?????

Thump may be the wrong word. I listen to quite a bit of drum and bass, as well as dubstep, and such. I would like to accomplish bass that I can feel, which you said was possible with your set up. Sorry, for you having to repeat yourself. Your persistence is greatly appreciated .

--- Plan today: See if I can't find a 10" driver that is slightly smaller than the pioneer (11 1/8"). I will be ordering this weekend. I wish the SWS manual had more info on ALL of the dimensions for the sub.

 

Peak wattage as calculated over a miliburst defined at what frequency and at what duration? And, how does any of it translate into listening to music in a car? I can take a speaker out of the TV in your living room and assign a peak wattage of 100 to it. It's a meaningless number.

Define deep bass. Seriously. Folks typically strive for a loud subwoofer, when pointing to a ported enclosure, as it's theoretically a more efficient setup - again - goal-dependent. This being said, the box is just one part of the equation.

There's always a question relating to a point of reference. When someone says "thump" in reference to bass in a car, to me, this means that one's internal organs are being moved about inside his body, as a given note materializes. This won't happen here.

OT: Keep in mind that car audio isn't based on audio; it's based on churning really sh/tty gear to people who know as much and care as much about the subject as my grandmother, may she RIP. It's sales approach is solely based on superficial factors that are debated endlessly by folks on car audio forums who, again, know nothing about audio. It's kinda entertaining from the sidelines. If you want to learn about audio, and I mean the basics - ie. how sound works - try any other pursuit: Pro, High-End, HT, whatever. Everyone lives by the same rules defined by physics. Just not car audio. They invent their own rules.

 

Thank you. That makes perfect sense.

I guess I would define deep bass, as bass that produces smooth, long low notes. In my experience with the W6, which I built a spec sealed box, and a crazy angled ported box, the sealed box always sounded stressed in the notes, but the ported box always sounded crisp and smooth. Again this is experience with two sufficiently sized boxes, as well as a non-shallow mount woofer.

I think this threads title should be - Audio myths and the car audio industry examined.

 

fyi, the piorneer single din headunits can be found much cheaper than elsewhere on ebay. the 9400 is like 170.

I am going with the JVC KDHDR71BT unit with bluetooth and HD radio mainly because I still like having memory buttons on the unit. usually the higher end models are missing these buttons. also the JVC has an external mic for the bluetooth that works better that the builtin ones.