Which FMIC to test: Spearco or Greddy
Quote from http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm#Bar%20and%20Plate%20or%20Tube%20 and%20Fin?
"Can an intercooler be too big?
YES ! In street driven applications, an intercooler can definitely be too big, maybe not for 'attitude', but for maximum performance. It is not an argument to say that Joe Blow's RX2 runs 9.6 @ 132 with a monstrous intercooler because that car may run 9.4 @ 134 with an intercooler that is engineered very close to the overall requirements of that combination. The same may be said for Fred Nerks TX3 that runs 13.8 @ 100 with his headlight to headlight monster intercooler jumping out of the grille. The car may run 13 flat @ 110 with a properly engineered intercooler/pipe setup. This is because if a 13,500 cu. cm. core drops the intake temperature to 40 degrees @ 1.5 psi. "static" pressure drop, a 9,550 cu. cm. core may drop the temperature to 41 degrees @ 0.82 psi "static" pressure drop, & I know which will produce more power !
The closer to ambient temperature the intake charge gets cooled to, the exponentially larger the internal surface area of the core is needed, also exponentially increasing the friction (drag) of the charge air in the larger core, causing higher Static pressure drop. Please note that the same kw. output can be generated by two engines, but require two different intercoolers. If one engine is fitted with a smaller than optimum turbo, then it will operate out of it's efficiency range, over revving & 'beating' the air, to a higher temperature. Even in a street application 40+ c. (eg. 120 to 160 deg. c.) is common! This requires a more efficient cooling intercooler, with either larger volume, more cooling fins or longer tube length, than the other engine that is fitted with a larger than optimum turbo, which may only heat the charge to 105 deg. c., placing less importance on the intercooler, but more on the inlet tank "window" (area) which needs to be larger & the tube length shorter. The first engine makes a better street driver, as the turbo will be on boost at considerably lower revs.
A really important point is that the more oversize an intercooler is, the more important tank shape is, for both pressure drop & charge distribution across the core face. Make an effort to suss out the best overall intercooler & pipework for your car, usage & driving style. It wil make a worthwhile gain, & possibly at less cost! "
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From: Blairstown, NJ
Originally Posted by masterevo
Ok...i just bought this core from u...heheheh...so you're telling me this is a waste of money even wtih an upgrade TUrbo? WTF???? man......
with a big turbo pushing much more airflow and hotter temperatures the stock ic can heatsoak and or be a restriction causing a large pressure drop accross the core.
I also have no data to support or against the stock IC in higher abient temps as well.
most of the vendors and many evom guys have shown impressive gains with upgrading the fmic. Especially with larger turbochargers.
I felt the data I colllected only showed this intercooler being too big for the stock turbo. How you got that I said it was "a waste of money even with an upgrade turbo? WTF" was certainly not from anything I said.
This fmic should work perfectly well with a larger than stock turbo. I would guess that airflow level the stock ic would not work as well as it does under my currect conditions.
Originally Posted by masterevo
Ok...i just bought this core from u...heheheh...so you're telling me this is a waste of money even wtih an upgrade TUrbo? WTF???? man......
Recent dyno data I've seen revealed only <5whp gain with a larger IC on a setup running just over 300 DD whp (~360 DJ whp) with a 10.5t turbo. This seems to indicate that a larger IC is better suited for larger turbos, and the cost/performance ratio of a larger IC isn't very attractive for stock turbo apps.
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From: Blairstown, NJ
Originally Posted by Ted B
Recent dyno data I've seen revealed only <5whp gain with a larger IC on a setup running just over 300 DD whp (~360 DJ whp) with a 10.5t turbo. This seems to indicate that a larger IC is better suited for larger turbos, and the cost/performance ratio of a larger IC isn't very attractive for stock turbo apps.
Stock Ic works great with stock turbo
upgraded Ic works best with larger turbo
You said you had a GT35R turbo (600hp).
Originally Posted by DSMotorsport
You said you had a GT35R turbo (600hp).
If I did have the GT35R, my car would be presently inoperable while awaiting a new clutch...
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From: Blairstown, NJ
Originally Posted by Ted B
Hmm, not me...not that I know of anyway (looking through closet...). I'm using the 16g with 10.5mm housing and Ti internals.
If I did have the GT35R, my car would be presently inoperable while awaiting a new clutch...
If I did have the GT35R, my car would be presently inoperable while awaiting a new clutch...
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David Buschur
Evo 'For Sale' External Engine / Power
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Jan 10, 2006 01:57 AM
