With the Buschur and AMS kits suddenly being the latest rage around here I've been trying to find out more information about them, and alcohol/water injection in general.

A few things. First, as far as I can tell (and I'm pretty sure), the Buschur kit is a rebranded SMC kit and the AMS kit is a rebranded alkycontrol kit. Of course, the kits are customized to our cars, so not a pure re-brand.

You can read about the SMC kit here:

http://www.smcenterprises.com/

And you can read about the Alkycontrol kit here:

http://www.alkycontrol.com/

To get some generic information about alcohol/water injection kits, you can look at the long-standing DIY alcohol kit site here:

http://members.***.net/stevemonroe/AlcoholInjMod.html

If you'd like to read a lot more about people's real life experiences with these competing kits, there is tons on the TurboBuick forum all consolidated in one place.

The part of the turbobuick forum dedicated to this subject is here:

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/for...php?forumid=14

Keep in mind that this section of the turbobuick forum is moderated by Razor of alkycontrol (real name: Julio Don), so it's a little biased, though SMC posts in there. For another view, you can go to the T6P forum where the alky section is moderated by Steve Chlupsa of SMC:

http://www.t6p.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13

And here is a recent thread debating/comparing some issues/differences between the SMC (ie Buschur) kit and the Alkycontrol (ie AMS) kit, with particular focus on the different pumps and controllers:

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/sho...5&pagenumber=1

Basically the pump in the alkycontrol/AMS kit allows water or alcohol, but the SMC/Buschur pump is only good for alcohol. SMC says that their pump is more limited but doesn't have the pressure fluctuations of the Alkycontrol/AMS pump and "Razor" (Julio) of alkycontrol says that SMC is wrong and their pump and controller are superior. Basically, Julio Don of alkycontrol and Steve Chlupsa of SMC seem to be at each other's throats constantly in these forums. It's like Shiv vs. Dave Buschur all over again.

What I was surprised to see were stories about problems. On-lights turning on when no alcohol was flowing, wiring issues, air in the lines causing the system to hesitate, dead pumps, failed check valves, etc. These systems clearly require more attention than just making sure the tank stays full. I'm still very interested, but the more I read about them the more I think that you really need to be on top of them and understand them to stay out of trouble.

Hope this helps others interested in studying up on this stuff.

 

Good compilation. Sticky worthy?

 

some more interesting stuff from personal experiences ..

the system that you get or intend to get .. make sure the seals can withstand prolong alcohol and heat..

Even though theyare advertised as capable .. mine leaked after 1 of track day.. it was tracked down to the o-rings that had distended due to non-alcohol compatibility ..

spraying too much of alky is also not very good .. though I have yet to see this.. people mentioned about borewash .. maybe someone can give more insights on this ..

 

Which kit were you running? The only thing I've come across on the borewash issue is in the context of the GM 3.8 turbo Buicik motor. According to one sight, GM was toying with the idea of including water injection on the turbo Buicks stock but ultimately scrapped it. The cars apparently have the a light on the dash called "Power Injection" that lights up on start up but is never used. Anyway, in durability testing, after 100s of 1000s of miles of continuous injection there were signs on engine teardown that the oil had been thinned in the cylinders and caused excess wear. Other than that, I haven't found anything.

 

Yes, this needs to be a "sticky"!

 

agree.this is very good info for anyone(like myself)who dosen't really know much,and wants to know more.maybe it should be a sticky for a month or so

 

The main advantage of the kits I am selling with Buschur are as follows:

1 - All major parts of the kit are pre-installed onto the stock intercooler tank so there is no fabrication or figuring out to do - its a simple bolt in affair

2 - The kit has been extensively dyno tested and calibrated so we can advise you how to set the progressive controller

3 - We already have pre-tuned reflash settings for all Buschur Stages 1 - 4 and many popular mod combinations that are commonly used. So all you have to do is plug and play the alochol kit and the reflashed ecu and the car will be tuned and ready to go.

 

How complicated is the install? Could you summarize what's involved? It can't be that easy if the standard Pruven rate for installing the kit is $300, as you posted last week. It must be 3+ hours of work for that amount of money.

How much do you anticipate the stainless pump to run water blends will add to the price when it becomes available? When this becomes available, I guess those who already have the current pump will be able to upgrade for a fee. Any idea how difficult it would be to swap pumps?

There is something on SMC's site that I had a question about. In the FAQ of SMC's site, it says:

Only a few higher-end injection systems offer a failsafe device to sense line pressure and not allow high boost unless the system is functioning properly. This is available on the SMC kits and is meant to be used with a factory or aftermarket boost control device.

Can you elaborate on this failsafe device? Is this something that someone should pursue with SMC directly, if interested, or will you or Buschur offer this as well? Seems like a really good idea and if it's available on the SMC kit for the WRX, etc., it seems like it should be adaptable to the Evo.

One concern I have with the SMC progressive controller is that it's a brand new unit that just hit the market. It doesn't seem like there are that many people that have it yet, even in the Buick community. Is there a warranty?

Finally, I assume that you/Buschur decided to go with SMC over Alkycontrol for a reason. What do you see as the advantages of the SMC technology over the AMS/Alkycontrol technology? None of the "advantages" that you cite really speak to the merits of the SMC kit over the Alkycontrol kit, generally. In other words, if you/Buschur had decided to market Julio's stuff, then you would have worked out flashes for that one, etc.

Al, I hope you don't mind all these questions. Since you popped in, I thought maybe you'd help us all out in sorting out the less obvious features of one kit vs. another.

Thanks,
RichJ

 

I use aquamist .. they are very professional about their kits .. and stand behind their products .. there's more info HERE

I use 50/50 methanol when I race .. and daily I just use distilled water ..

 

i think another good question to address is where to buy bulk alcohol... ethanol or otherwise, going to the drug store and buyin' up all those bottles is WAY expensive. for that kinda power adding... might as well to with tuolene and xylene.

 

Bump for questions about Buschur kit in post #8 above

 

All of your questions have been answered and or discussed in the various threads on the dyno flash vendor section relative to this product

 

I searched through there and couldn't find answers about the warranty on the kit or the availability of the optional failsafe device that SMC alludes to on their website in the FAQ section:

Only a few higher-end injection systems offer a failsafe device to sense line pressure and not allow high boost unless the system is functioning properly. This is available on the SMC kits and is meant to be used with a factory or aftermarket boost control device.

Thanks.

 

I can vouch for the installation time required for the Bushur (SMC kit). It take about 1.5 hours to install it. It is very easy, especially if you already have a hole in the firewall on the driver side. The only special tool required is a 25/64" drill bit, which most people wont have. It is slightly larger than 3/8" ..

It makes it much easier if you have already or are buying a hardpipe upper IC pipe at the same time. If you do, you can mount the nozzle at the end of the upper IC pipe right before the TB, this is the preferred location for it.

The controller fits perfectly in the little coin holder. Just drill a big hole in the back of it for the wires and boost hose to clear.

BTW, also, you can mount it so no one will ever know you have it on, unless they know what to look for.

Brian

 

When mounted in the tray, is it in there with the door closed? Or do you take out the door so you can monitor the lights? I'm just a bit confused on the mount and its visibility.