Is there products out now that could change parts of your stock oem turbo?

like change the turbine to Titanium and stick a ball bearings on each turbine?

I want to find out if anyone's done this and how much lag it's reduced.

thanx.

 

There are a few shops in the UK that do that. Essex turbochargers I believe is one of them. Also a boardmember evo400 has posted on that. You might want to do a search. Very pricey though.

 

So far the Titanium impeller has proven to have quite a bit of value, along with the 10.5t compressor housing (and porting it). I personally have found some benefit in upgrading/porting an 05 MR compressor cover. The Ballbearing upgrade has been done in the UK, but so far its proven to pricey to justify its value (which isn't a huge difference over lightening the internals by using the titanium CHRA components.

There are currently only two reverse rotation compressor wheels available for the evolution turbocharger, the 16G6 and the 15GK8 (I think thats the correct designation, but its a 15xxx)

There are several (and this is posted all over the place) turbo shops working on a 20G wheel upgrade, but I feel that some of them are missing the mark a bit on how their going about it. Just adding the wheel and making minor clearance mods for it to fit in a Evo compressor cover basically just allows it to fit, but does very little to improve airflow.

I am really excited to see where the 20G wheel mod goes, but so far its not encouraging..

However with the 20G wheel, here's the problem, the bigger wheel has two problems that aren't being addressed by just stuffing it into the compressor cover of a stock 16G

1) the hub size of the 20G wheel is slightly larger than the 16G6 wheel, but the inducer diameter is also slightly larger.. the problem is net-net the results would be similar or worse for that reason..

2) the hub size should be machined back, and the inlet on the compressor cover should be increased in size slightly so the 20G wheel fits into it.

3) the compressor cover has a slot, chamber, and outlet, designed to flow a specific amount of air, if you expect the more aggressive bite of the 20G wheel to move more air, you have to increase the slot size, hone the chamber to increase its volume, and increase the diameter of the outlet (discharge) so the compressed air has somewhere to go.. Otherwise you end up with a 20G wheel which performs worse than a 16G6 wheel because it just gets choked by the restrictions it finds.

4) Ultimately the starting point of the wheel itself should be the 16G6, with a bit of added diameter and slightly more aggressive pitch on the blades to bite into more air... however the new wheel would not work unless the compressor cover can flow more air (see previous point)

OBVIOUSLY there are some more "Engineering aspects" to doing this, such as, how much meat is available on the cover, and what other modifications can be made to wheel design or the interior surface of the compressor cover to make things work better (smoothing some sharp edges where possible, and of course, polishing the interior chambers so their smooth can help)

Etc.. etc..

 

^ from an engineering stand point, you make allot of sense. I believe that the wheels effectivness would shine given a compressor housing that matches the wheels air flow.

If we did not have the reverse rotation, more doors would open due to existing fabrication of bigger (A/R wise) compressor housings. I emailed a turbo company about a month ago pertaining to this subject. They have since contacted Mitsubishi concerning this but no response yet.

How is the 05 MR compressor housing different? I wonder if it was cast to flow a little more
due to the 10.5t turbine housing. Does any know where to purchase the housing or even the wastegate (supposedly a better design from previous)?

 

I posted in another thread a long time ago about my findings on that compressor cover.. Honestly they never appeared to be much different, but there were some very small size differences in its interior volume, outlet, and slot size.. The one thing I did notice was the casting appeared a little different visually so it was definitely cast from a different mold and likely the molds were created from a different positive.. the final machining is what determines its airflow characteristics though.

I don't see it being a big deal for someone to reverse engineer a housing, and increase the size of the entire scroll section, inlet, intake slot (nozzle).. the basic casting and interior volumes would have to be a little larger, and areas that mate to the cartridge would have to remain the same.. Only I can't grasp why it would be more difficult for a machine shop to create a positive and interior chamber models for a foundry to cast new covers.. Obviously besides cost, I realize its a complex model, but its not a complex task for a manufacturer who is familiar with turbos.

Its possible it was cast to flow slightly more air.. I think there were some tests comparing the 05 turbo and an 03 turbo with the 10.5 housing, and there were some performance differences between the two that could be explained by different tuning or engine differences (Although thats certainly possible) Therefore it would logically imply that the cover may have some differences... (Its not a scientific enough comparison to conclude that anyway)

the early 10.5 housing, and later 10.5 housing had two different wastegate flappers, both flow around the same through the flapper, but the ports on the new design are placed close to eachother, presumably to reduce some level of turbulence in the O2 housing..

There are just so many options, what surprises me is that the platform and the twin scroll turbo has been in use for 8 generations (approx 9 years) but only in the past 2 years has there been any real development on it.. HKS Kansai actually had some encouraging results on a hybrid turbo design (originally it was published that their results were disappointing just as buschur's results) but I suspect they decided to look at the compressor cover too and not just the 20G wheel as the holy grail (none of this is documented well, and is only speculation other than the existence of the article and their preliminary results)

Unfortunately none of this stuff is all that meaningful if it is very expensive and outweighs the cost of a complete aftermarket turbo.. Lets face it, alot of people like to go in one of two directions Very cheap, or very big.. Myself, I like to optimize everything to get the best results, so I am interested in this regardless of cost, but the majority of the market is interested in this because of it being cheaper and easier to do than a complete turbo upgrade.

 

agreed. a complete turbo upgrade turns me off due to a change in manifold and wastage implementation (many of course sell with external wastgates); this is relvent in my application, like many here, because I want an all around powerful street vehicle....not a t51r beast dropping 700+hp

I guess time will tell as some companies will stand up a series of parts for the
TDO5HR -XXX turbo...as with many companies, once production increases due to sales, price per unit will drop.

For now the 6.5tme will do as I think it is very cost effective; its also cool to tell other turbo running gear heads you have a TiAl CHRA; my buddy with a 1989 gta firebird is jealous lol

 

Yep, I hear that.. I'm more about drivability than big HP numbers.. I'd rather drive the car every day and enjoy it.. than have the biggest stick and constantly be working on it fixing little issues or tuning problems..

 

I was wondering if a beefier thrust bearing can be installed in the CHRA. I havn't looked around to much but I can see that a couple of areas that can be improved (given proper materials) can be the thrust bearing and the thrust bearing washer. Perhaps more oil ports on the washer can improve longveity of the cartridge?

I havnt opened my cartidge yet, but do we use a 270 deg or 360 deg thrust bearing washer?

 

Not sure, the few I've taken apart from different generations were all very similar, and didn't have alot of "meat" on them to make room for anything much larger/different than stock.. Which is likely why the BB idea ended up being so expensive.

 

thanks for the great feedback guys.

Mal, this is what I want as well, drivability over big hp. I think stock turbo setup is great but could be just a bit better.

That's why I was thinking (10.5 hotside) with titanium blade to spin it faster and eliminate lag a bit more.

I just wanted to figure out if anyones done the titanium blade upgrade and what the result was. Because investment and no return is disappointing.

In paper it looks good. Bit more power and better driveability. Then I could work on the suspension of the car.

 

Hey Malibu,

I think it's a 15GK2. I know, I'm a dork...


BTW, did you ever try that Hondata gasket on your car???

 

LOL 15GK2 I was close..

Actually I haven't swapped over the intake manifold yet so no.. But I'm definitely going to use it when I get around to it.. every little bit helps.

And Plokivos, I don't think you'd be disappointed with no return for your investment.. But this kind of mod is definitely an "area under the curve" mod, peak numbers aren't as big a factor as the entire curve and the gains and improvement in drivability and "seat of the pants" feel when driving the car every day... I wish I can say my car has the turbo on it.. But I am still putting components together and building parts.. but I've worked on/driven other cars with the Ti turbo..

 

HI guys
not posted for a while but i am still around . we have cars here in the uk with a EVO400 Ti turbo and a mappable ecu running 400hp 400ftlb + torque . @ 1.5 bar .
we also have a great new development in the all new EVO400 WRC comp cover . its a full 4" ported shroud inlet system and from early results is offering far great boost response and boost onset and mid top end hp levels even on stock turbos !!!! . all products are avaliable via www.evo400.com please email us for any advise you may require . also on the larger wheel front ! we tryed 3 different wheels 2/3 years ago and all didn't work ! this turbo is for this size wheel only and can't substain a larger format . hope this helps .

dave

 

i guess that's an open element turbo without an air intake attachement?

i don't see how you could connect that to an intake with the inlet lip being that shape.

i think i may try this on my car eventually (possibly starting from next year).

I'll do some more research on turbo setups before I'll do it though, i need to understand this a bit better than what i know now.

that and look into evo 7 anti-lag system as well...

 

This system is for use with a ecu with map sensor . ie aem motec . here in england we use 4" pipe work to the turbo chargers which is supplyed with the upgrade .

dave

ps as for testing we have done it all ! what is it you need to know ??