Zeus

iTrader: (66)

I'm running Turbo Trix flashed 272/272 on stock cam gears. No Problems! No stalling, and no perceived loss of any "low end torque". The car has a "neat" lope when warm at idle. This is coming from an old man that has little to no tolerance for driving a modified car that drives like a modified car... if you know what I mean. The only problems I have seen with the 272 combo installed "straight up" is when installed with and aftermarket MAF pipe that has not been tuned for. I've seen those cams run fine now even on OE flashes as long as the OE MAF pipe is used. I've seen a beautifully idling 272/272 OE flash fall on it's face with only the addition of a MAF pipe... stumbling, spitting, and falling all over itself. Take that for what it is worth...

If you go through the countless pages of Buschur dyno threads, you will find David suggests the straight 272/272 combo as it gives up little to no "low end torque" or drivability. Matter of fact, he says something to the effect that he couldn't see why anyone would run anything else. Of course he backs his statements with graphs as usual.

EVO8LTW

iTrader: (41)

That's not how I read that thread and I've read it multiple times. I think you should take a look at post #298:

David Buschur wrote on 2/5/05 (after running the 272 and the 280s): "I believe the best choice for the car is going to be the 264/272's just as it was in the old DSM's as that is what we found back then to be the best all around combination. The idle and driveability is fine like this with the added power of the 272 exhaust cam."

He does make statements about the 280s losing no low end to the 272s, but he's basing that completely off dyno pulls. Real world driving includes RPM ranges below where you'd start a dyno pull. Furthermore, putting low end and idle quality aside, there is also the issue of emissions to think about for some. Going with 264s or 264/272 is a safer bet for getting through emissions test due to the reduced overlap -- especially if you are going to go with the Buschur no cam gear approach.

Zeus

iTrader: (66)

I'll find the later thread where I believe he changes his mind...

Zeus

iTrader: (66)

I may stand corrected on Buschur's statements... a quick search provided no results on my recolection... then again you start forgetting things later on. My own personal experience still stands. No one is going to miss the "low end" of the OE cams. You may get more "low end" out of the 264s, but I have no personal experience with them.

berkel

iTrader: (5)

Interesting stuff.

EVO8LTW, you already addressed my follow up question regarding emissions. I'm in MA and may get smogged this year. It would be nice to pass, heh.

I "think" they will just do the OBDII check, and if there are no codes I'm good. Obviously they won't dyno my AWD car, but I guess they may sniff at idle.

Does 264/272 have the same smog passing capability as straight 264s, because both have "only" a 264 intake cam? I believe the concern is more overlap, so is staggered (264/272) more overlap than straight 264s? Thanks for insight and edumacation...

FB

Zeus

iTrader: (66)

Now if we are going to be talking about an emission issue, I'd probably revert back to the straight 264 combo... and your tuner is going to have a large role to play in that.

EVO8LTW

iTrader: (41)

Yes. More overlap with the mixed combo because the 264 and 272 share the same lobe centerline angle (i.e., there is no build in retard with the 272 vis a vis the 264). 264s are a safer bet if you don't have cam gears.

EvoPanda7

ok i talk to a few shops today one being gruppe-s and all saying that you should break in the cams. ill try and investigate a little more, im not trying to prove to everyone wrong i just wana make sure all of us dont mess up our evo's... everyone stated that you should have atleat a 500- 800 mile break in period for the cams (idle for 15 20 min) when u first install and then take it up a thousand rpms every once in a while.. then drive it like its new for a while till you reach around 600. uMM maybe u need to break them in to make sure the settings are right? my friend had a si that he drove hard when his cams were installed wrong.. his car was never the same =(

berkel

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the input all! I think I have my misfire situation under control.

Sounds like I should stick with the 264s for the emissions issues. I wish I hadn't seen how the 264/272 may give that nice improvement in spool, lol.

If I were to get cam gears, I could probably dial out some overlap at idle to help with emissions, right? Hmmmmmmm.

Take care,

FB

dohcvtec

iTrader: (5)

Maybe thats just it? It could be just a precautionary incase there is some manufacture defect or bad installation so that you're at low rpm and notice something it cause much damage? I've asked the same question as WildRice and have never got an answer from anyone, its like they just ignore the question. Makes me wonder if they even have a clue? I've installed many cams in honda DOHC vtec motors and not once did I "break them in" because there is nothing to break in. This is with a head with slider rockers, not rollers. After 5+ years, no problems yet. Just like WildRice said, there are no bearings or rings that need to be seated, which is all a real engine break in is for.

EVOONYOASS

iTrader: (2)

Here you go guys. I hope this is the answer you were looking for.

www.cranecams.com/?show=reasonsForFailure

It pretty much says to vary the rpm's between 1500-3000 rpm's for 15-20 minutes. Do not leave it at one rpm during break-in period.

Jamie@WORKS

iTrader: (10)

WORKS recommends that you vary the RPM around 1500-ish for the first 15-20 minutes. After that we bring it up to no more than 3500 for the next half hour. For each half hour of running time, we bump the RPM limit by 1000. The key is to vary the RPM and not go beyond the limit based on time.

WildRice

This is from the Crane Cam site mentioned above.

(c) Note: Roller tappet cams don’t require any break-in. You can use roller lifters over again on a new cam if they are in good condition. There will be, of course, no lifter or pushrod rotation with the use of a roller tappet cam.

DSMotorsport

iTrader: (5)

I just put 272's in our EMS/BR440 car and as per the EMS log's hp calculator we picked up between 30-40 hp once on boost. We went from 358whp in the afternoon with stock cams to 398whp with the 272s after the install with the same gas/weight/22psi and a little retuning.

Anyway...no experience with the 264s, but the 272's we a giant power gain, better than expected.

EvoPanda7

just a quick question... witht he works cam would you have to tune it? ... and for the hks cams if you got the 264 /272 how would you tune with the cam gears? is there a difference in cam gears that you use (other then wut there made of)? cuz there is a differnece in price