100 unleaded and Alky... Boost?
Methanol or ethanol provides a source of higher octane fuel if used in sufficient quantity. Water absorbs heat.
Injecting a nominal volume of a water/alcohol mixture will delay the onset of preignition to some degree.
However, as I have learned fairly recently, if you're after max power potential, using anything other then 100% methanol (or absolute ethanol) will deliver significantly less power potential. Of course, this assumes one is equipped and has access to competent tuning to accomodate this, otherwise it will amount to an expensive exercise in futility.
Injecting a nominal volume of a water/alcohol mixture will delay the onset of preignition to some degree.
However, as I have learned fairly recently, if you're after max power potential, using anything other then 100% methanol (or absolute ethanol) will deliver significantly less power potential. Of course, this assumes one is equipped and has access to competent tuning to accomodate this, otherwise it will amount to an expensive exercise in futility.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 61
From: Ulster County, NY
Originally Posted by dsm95hybrid
What?
The alky causes corrosion and dries out rubber and gaskets which is why you should use uplon fuel lube.
The water lowers the air temp and the alky further lowers the air temp through rapid evaporation. It also adds fuel allowing you to lean out the mixture and improve your ign timing.
The alky causes corrosion and dries out rubber and gaskets which is why you should use uplon fuel lube.
The water lowers the air temp and the alky further lowers the air temp through rapid evaporation. It also adds fuel allowing you to lean out the mixture and improve your ign timing.
I have the kit and this is my daily driver. What the kit did was allow me to be tuned "as if" I was running
race gas, without the expense of buying C16. Although the denatured alchohol I use is expensive,
I adjust my EBC settings so I don't spray all the time.
(FYI, the alky kit controller has 2 settings - what psi the spray starts, and what psi the spray is at full pressure.
My settings are the factory defaults - 12psi and 20psi.)
I set my HKS 'B' setting to zero, so I boost to only 12psi. This is good enough for tooling around town, etc.
So the kit hardly ever engages. When I need a little power, I push the 'A' button and off I go.
Like hitting afterburners.
And if the red led comes on (low level), I can flip to 'B' setting and I don't have to worry about watching my boost.
I can just roll along until I get a chance to refill the tank.
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 243
Likes: 1
From: Jamaica W.I.
Originally Posted by wspy
Now thats what I was thinking! As far as I know, and as was stated earlier, the use of alcohol / water injection will afford you the ability to run more timing and thus make more power:- if its a stand-alone ECU you would tune as such or if its a factory ECU the cumputor should sense the 'no knock' and then select the most advanced (timing) map.
And I believe that the reason that people use high octane leaded fuels such as C-16 is because of the anti-detonant properties of the lead which enables them to use a more aggressive timing curve and thusly make more power!
So, if you want to use an unleaded fuel, the highest octane of which is around 103-4, and you inject the alky mix, would you not be able to run more boost like say 30-32, provided your turbo can handle it?
Wadaya think Dave, Al , anyone else!
And I believe that the reason that people use high octane leaded fuels such as C-16 is because of the anti-detonant properties of the lead which enables them to use a more aggressive timing curve and thusly make more power!
So, if you want to use an unleaded fuel, the highest octane of which is around 103-4, and you inject the alky mix, would you not be able to run more boost like say 30-32, provided your turbo can handle it?
Wadaya think
Dave, Al , anyone else!
Originally Posted by wspy
And I believe that the reason that people use high octane leaded fuels such as C-16 is because of the anti-detonant properties of the lead which enables them to use a more aggressive timing curve and thusly make more power!
Originally Posted by wspy
So, if you want to use an unleaded fuel, the highest octane of which is around 103-4, and you inject the alky mix, would you not be able to run more boost like say 30-32, provided your turbo can handle it?
It seems to unfold like this:
If you're running plain pump fuel, a significant slug of methanol will provide an octane boost, forget water. If you're already running race fuel, you're probably relegated to what benefits you can get by injecting a small percentage of water, forget methanol.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
From: Central MA
limit of the stock compressor wheel is about 28psi spiking at 30 is pushing it way too far..
Originally Posted by wspy
Now thats what I was thinking! As far as I know, and as was stated earlier, the use of alcohol / water injection will afford you the ability to run more timing and thus make more power:- if its a stand-alone ECU you would tune as such or if its a factory ECU the cumputor should sense the 'no knock' and then select the most advanced (timing) map.
And I believe that the reason that people use high octane leaded fuels such as C-16 is because of the anti-detonant properties of the lead which enables them to use a more aggressive timing curve and thusly make more power!
So, if you want to use an unleaded fuel, the highest octane of which is around 103-4, and you inject the alky mix, would you not be able to run more boost like say 30-32, provided your turbo can handle it?
Wadaya think Dave, Al , anyone else!
And I believe that the reason that people use high octane leaded fuels such as C-16 is because of the anti-detonant properties of the lead which enables them to use a more aggressive timing curve and thusly make more power!
So, if you want to use an unleaded fuel, the highest octane of which is around 103-4, and you inject the alky mix, would you not be able to run more boost like say 30-32, provided your turbo can handle it?
Wadaya think
Dave, Al , anyone else!
Evolved Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
From: Central MA
Ist the kit sweet.. youd never know what yourlooking at cause you cant see the pump nor the tap....
Look at my pics you can barely see it... Http://community.webshots.com/user/brevo8
Look at my pics you can barely see it... Http://community.webshots.com/user/brevo8
Originally Posted by mikesevo8
Actually the latest versions of the kit have a different pump so you don't need the Uplon anymore.
I have the kit and this is my daily driver. What the kit did was allow me to be tuned "as if" I was running
race gas, without the expense of buying C16. Although the denatured alchohol I use is expensive,
I adjust my EBC settings so I don't spray all the time.
(FYI, the alky kit controller has 2 settings - what psi the spray starts, and what psi the spray is at full pressure.
My settings are the factory defaults - 12psi and 20psi.)
I set my HKS 'B' setting to zero, so I boost to only 12psi. This is good enough for tooling around town, etc.
So the kit hardly ever engages. When I need a little power, I push the 'A' button and off I go.
Like hitting afterburners.
And if the red led comes on (low level), I can flip to 'B' setting and I don't have to worry about watching my boost.
I can just roll along until I get a chance to refill the tank.
I have the kit and this is my daily driver. What the kit did was allow me to be tuned "as if" I was running
race gas, without the expense of buying C16. Although the denatured alchohol I use is expensive,
I adjust my EBC settings so I don't spray all the time.
(FYI, the alky kit controller has 2 settings - what psi the spray starts, and what psi the spray is at full pressure.
My settings are the factory defaults - 12psi and 20psi.)
I set my HKS 'B' setting to zero, so I boost to only 12psi. This is good enough for tooling around town, etc.
So the kit hardly ever engages. When I need a little power, I push the 'A' button and off I go.
Like hitting afterburners.
And if the red led comes on (low level), I can flip to 'B' setting and I don't have to worry about watching my boost.
I can just roll along until I get a chance to refill the tank.
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 243
Likes: 1
From: Jamaica W.I.
Originally Posted by Ted B
A higher octane fuel burns tolerates higher cylinder pressures, and this is primarily what yields more power potential. A higher octane fuel burns more slowly, and the spark timing must be advanced to accomodate this. There is an optimum point of spark advance for any particular setup, and if advanced beyond a point (which occurs *before* detonation), there is nothing more to be gained.
Alcohol may not be beneficial at all if you're starting with 104 oct.
It seems to unfold like this:
If you're running plain pump fuel, a significant slug of methanol will provide an octane boost, forget water. If you're already running race fuel, you're probably relegated to what benefits you can get by injecting a small percentage of water, forget methanol.
Alcohol may not be beneficial at all if you're starting with 104 oct.
It seems to unfold like this:
If you're running plain pump fuel, a significant slug of methanol will provide an octane boost, forget water. If you're already running race fuel, you're probably relegated to what benefits you can get by injecting a small percentage of water, forget methanol.
Ok
So then how much boost would you say can be run on 103 unleaded
I wouldn't want to guess because I'm not running that particular turbo. There are factors that will affect that, such as cams and the timing thereof, the temperature of the intake charge (time of year, IC efficiency), turbo efficiency and rpm, etc. There are persons with this turbo who've subjected their setup to dyno tuning and can give a better idea.
At any rate, you'll probably find that you can run maybe a little more boost at any given setting than the factory turbo (all else being equal), simply because the 3037 will run more efficiently at higher loads, and the temp of the intake charge will be lower than a 16G. Even at the same boost levels, the 3037 will make a little more power for the same reason.
The tradeoff however, is always lag.
At any rate, you'll probably find that you can run maybe a little more boost at any given setting than the factory turbo (all else being equal), simply because the 3037 will run more efficiently at higher loads, and the temp of the intake charge will be lower than a 16G. Even at the same boost levels, the 3037 will make a little more power for the same reason.
The tradeoff however, is always lag.
Originally Posted by 4ringturncoat
On 93oct and alky (100%) I run 26.5 for everyday driving. I would talk to Dave but my guess would be around 30psi would be safe.
