IMHO a tubular manifold will be able to flow more exhuast gas, more efficiently. Any serious tuner upgrades to one. I mean equal length runners and far less turbulance, I like Tubular manifolds

 

Silly as it may sounds....My friend's ATP 3071r kit hit 421whp....

O well....different strokes for different folks...

Cheers...

 

But we actually tested for the difference with the Vishnu kits. The only major difference being the manifold. Peak hp difference of maybe 15 whp on race gas is about all we can account for.

Up to the peak points on the dyno graphs, the 2 manifolds spool and hold power curves identically.

The Vishnu kit was tested at the Tuning Technologies/SMART seminar, and everyone was pretty much in agreement (The entire Vishnu crew, TT crew, IE Evo - who oned the stage 3, Smogrunner, and a few others) that the Stage 2 vishnu with the CAST manifold was very close to the Stage 3 Vishnu with Tubular manifold and the 30R on race gas is probably close to the flow capacity of the stock manifold.

I may at one point get the manifold extrude honed and ported, and in that case, it may flow identical to a tubular manifold.

Shiv said a 35R though, could benifit from a tubular manifold.

BTW, if you are shopping for a tubular manifold, check out the Vishnu. It's an awesome piece of work.

 

I don't think the peak hp numbers are that different between the kits and I'm not surprised a 3071 hit that number.

It's what happens with the kits early and late and the ATP 30R lagged on spool-up and fell on it's face after 6800 rpm. The Vishnu spools may 800 rpm earlier with the same turbo compared to the ATP and pulls like a locomotive to the redline.

But again, the ATP 3071 seems to be the big seller, not the 30R and they push the 3071 on their web site, so maybe that 's the better hotside compared with their own 30R hotside.

With in kits comparing the different Garrett turbos on pump gas, I think the 3071 and 30R have similar peak hp, just the 3071 spools earlier and on pump, they both hold about the same to the redline. On the Vishnu kit, I think David said the 3071 might spool 200 rpm earlier.

If pump gas was the only fuel to be considered, then the 3071 might be a great choice.

 

For starters, Lets say you really did see a ATP kit in action and it made 380hp, what mods did it have? On what kind of dyno? Your RNR/AMS comparisons, where they on the same car, with the same mods, on the same dyno?
You need to start bringing some facts to the table or dont post, some people might actually make a decision based on your internet claims.
It sounds as though you have seen a lot of cars/dyno pulls in your days, do you own a shop or do you just read alot?

 

Hey, u r right on the ATp 30R tapering off at 6800rpm...

I wonder if he puts on a aftermarket intake manifold, will he be able to hold it to redline....

 

im sorry but u cant really compare these kits equally. they are all different prices. for $2,400 imo the atp kit takes the cake for driveability , price and performance on pump gas. if u have the money and are willing to spend it, i would choose the vishnu kit out of these 3 choices. even better if u had more money to spend, i would do the ams 35R kit with the stroker kit. now thats where the power is. but not everyone has 8-9G's to spend on parts and install, so for a cheap decent power kit the atp is the way to go.

 

You know what I believe it, Buschur has a thread where he ran a tubular manifold he made and saw no gains and actually losses. Again some venders stated that manifold design is VERY important and that you just can't slap a manifold together. A 35R flows WAY WAY WAY more then a GT3076R or a 71R, figure a 52 Pound Wheel and 62 Pound wheel so yeah any added exhaust gas volume will make more power.

Either way I wana see some times and some runs. The way AMS gets press many people’s view’s on turbo kits are just skewed, not saying that AMS is bad, but I can’t think of a better kit for my car. The y have a simple deign, start with an excellent turbo, give it a high flowing exhaust manifold and 02 housing, that’s all you need.


Nice, was that pump or race gas?


That’s another thing…….Powerband, that ATP kit may have made that power, but for how long with how much lag? Again I blame that custom hotside, seems like a poor design.


Intake, full turbo back exhaust, HKS 272’s, fuel pump, Greddy 720CC injectors, Clutch, Greddy BOV, Hallman MBC…….The issue was tuning in that their was detonation no matter what was done in the upper RPMs. Kind of like running a stock cat and trying to get 350+WHP, can’t really be done without a HUGE turbo as there is too much back pressure, which has to be the design in the Hotside that was swapped. It was also quite laggy compaired to other GT3071R’s, again hotside. If you search on this site on the ATP kit you will see these same results. Dynojet for me, and it lagged similar to a Non BB 50-Trim kit.



I have, but this is only the internet so I can only share my experience and my findings. I FIND that the ATP kit is both laggy and fails to make the same power as an unmolested Garrett Turbo. A LOT of testing and engineering goes into building a turbo. If the hotside is a poor design, you get poor spoolup and poor flow up top, if you can’t flow the exhaust gas, you get detonation, that’s it.

I’m sorry you’re upset; I believe that the ATP kit offers some gains, but nothing spectacular like AMS/RNR kits. I have no idea on the Vishnu kit; I know nothing about that one.


I just love how you assume and make stuff up when you get upset. Again I live by three major tuners that I hit up at least once a week. Each have tuned these ATP kits, each have the same results.

Laggy
Sub 400WHP Pump gas numbers
Stock like ¼ mile times


Don’t get upset, just deal with it. I AM SORRY my opinion is different then yours, but that’s what happens life buddy, not everyone thinks the same way, and based on the facts and experience I have with these kits, these are my findings.


Sorry………………



No, I guarantee you it is the hotside, it can’t flow the exhaust volume, is backing up, and causing detonation. In all honesty, purchase the OEM Garrett hotside for that turbo and get a manifold to fit that style hotside. Buschur makes one that is cast and you can buy a good SS one for a min of $400, Do this, and find more power, faster spool, better topend. There is NO REASON why a Garrett GT30R series turbo should fall off ANYWHERE on a 2.0 4G63. Even the smallest GT3071R should make 420WHP and be spooled well under 4000, where is your spool at?

 

he is on pump gas...

98 RON....by the way 98 RON is equivalent to wat rating of gas in the States?

No wonder, he is still using the stock manifold..i will let him know to use a tubular manifold instead...

thanks dude...

 

Hey Jayleno do you have one of your dynos that you can post.Tried searching for your dyno could not find one.

 

jbfoco, you live in CA, go talk to RRE and see what they are putting into their road racing Evo(s).

However, given the options, I'd lean towards the Vishnu kit, but at the price, I'd opt for an AMS kit first. I definitely would NOT go with an ATP, and I have not seen a Buschur kit, so I don't have an opinion there.

For road racing, you probably do not want to go larger than a 3071 initially ... but a lot of that will depend on how hard you plan on pushing your engine on the track (i.e. how aggressive is your tune going to be?)

l8r)

 

The AMS is about $700 more when you factor in injectors, is louder and doesn't look stock. Nice kit though.

 

That should help but I really think it is the Hotside. If I were him I would swap in a True Garrett Hotside and a new Manifold that way. May as well he’ll get faster spool for sure with the true Garrett hotside. I have no idea where to purchase a Garrett Hotside from but you can get a manifold for that quite easily.

 

That's because they aren't up. I'm going to dig through some boxes and see if I can find the ATP dyno graphs and post them alongside the Vishnu.

When they go up though, keep in mind the kits were dyno'd on different dynos...

 

You can get it from a Garrett distributor like ATP