I just installed an alcohol injection kit in my Evo and have some questions. Im running 0 degree washer fluid, I have tuned it on the SAFC for 11.4 AFR throughout the powerband, I started the spray at 11 psi boost and full at 20 psi, and running about 23 psi max right now, trying to keep it safe till I figure out exactly what Im doing. Running an M5 nozzle and around 100 psi pump pressure. I started out leaving the boost at 20 and the tune exactly how I run pump gas, just added the injection and the AFRs went super rich, like 10.0. So I slowly tuned it out and Im at 23 psi and 11.4 at the moment but I was wondering if anyone knows if its safe to go leaner with it for drag racing, I know C16 you can go to 12.5, but what about 5050 meth/water inj.? I think I will leave it where it is for now for daily driving just to keep a margin of safety for changing weather conditions day to day. My dynoflash tune seems to only be giving me about 19 degrees of timing by redline, same on thing on C16, so basically the SAFC is only affecting AFR cause the timing seems to be consistant. So whats a safe AFR for drag racing, with 26 psi and the stock taper up top? Also, as far as knowing how much water/meth to inject, should I just keep increasing pump pressure until I get a bog from it, then back it off to just before that? Do you want as much water/meth injected as possible without bogging the engine? Im new to this whole thing just looking for some tips, thanks.

 

what kinda alky kit u got?
u can even adjust pump out put psi??? mine dont have that opt...putting down like 140psi/
and its barely bogging when i push test button for like 5sec.....for 1-2sec does nothing,,,,

 

I'm still playing with water/meth injection right now .. but I noticed with the spray on .. your ignition timing will climb relatively high .. I've seen as high as 26 degrees advance at 23psi boost at 7400rpms .. I'm runnin as you with a flash but another piggyback that allows for ignition adjustments .. IMO that's how you should run with water/meth .. getting the AFR into the ballpark for normal fuel .. and then advancing the ignition..the difference I logged on my logger with only a 2 degree ignition advance can be as much as 15hp..

 

I think I should start saving for a standalone at this point, cause I have no way to directly adjust ign. timing or log knock. I just got home from the track tonight with dissapointing results. The track sucked *** tonight, i spun hard on every single pass. I have to check my logs to verify, but I kept running 108 mph with a 25 psi spike. That is less then I was getting on just C16 before i added the alc. injection. I need to put some more work into tuning this thing now that I went and complicated my setup with the water injection. I put a gallon and a half of 110 leaded in just to be safe, my AFRs went rich from it so I had to waste a few runs tuning it back to how I had it. I even went as lean as 12.5 afr but didnt help mph at all, still 108. I then tried a couple runs without the water inj. turned on and the mph picked up, then my laptop battery died so I dont know what the AFRs were after that, I lowered the pump pressure for the injection and made another pass with it on, 112 mph. Still low from what I normally run on C16, but it might be cause my 60 fts were horrible so I wasnt getting enough chance to build up the speed. Whatever the case, my ecu is only giving me like 19 max timing advance at redline, and its fairly slow to get their it seems, its at 17 at 7400 rpms. Im really just getting sick of all this BSing around with the stock ecu and afc and now 2 different loggers, one for the zeitronix and a obd2 logger, it sucks. Time to save for an EMS.

But back to the topic, is it better to run more or less pressure from the pump? What size nozzle are you guys running? I think I turned it down to 80 psi for the last run when the mph came up, but I also reset the ecu somewhere in between this which usually makes the car faster. Bah I dont know, its late and Im pretty lost as to why the car went so slow tonight. If anyone has any ideas of what Im doing wrong let me know, oh and I have the devils own alcohol/water inj. kit with the 3 bar progressive controller. thanks

 

let dynoflash tune it..

 

If you are using a progressive alky contoller you MUST run your AFC in MAP mode, do this by using the 3.5 bar zeitronics/AEM (or any 1-5v sensor) map sensor. Instead of going by TPS have the MAP sensor drive the TPS signal on the AFC. I would still get a FLash and just use the AFC to tune from 0-5 psi up. It is pretty easy to do and well worth the time to change over to MAP.

 

sell the afc, dont do the flash, and just buy a stand-a-lone. save your money and do the way it should be done. dont go the cheap route, it will cost more in the long run.
just my 2 cents.

 

So timing was climing slower than usual? That seems to suggest that maybe the ECU heard a little knock?

And if resetting the ECU causes the car to go a little faster, that also sounds like potential knock since resetting the ECU would cause the computer to forget that it's been hearing knock recently and using more conservative timing.

Another culprit could be your ignition. What plugs are you running and how are they gapped? The water injection is going to tend to snuff out the spark, so you might want to put in fresh plugs and tighten the gap into the low 20s and see if that makes a difference.

I'm following this closely because I just got a alky kit myself a couple days ago (still need to install it) and am going to be tuning it with a UTEC. FWIW, Al suggested starting the progressive turn on point at 18 psi on the SMC kit.

 

Im not going back to the Dynoflash route, I already have it and it was fine for when I was lightly modded but the level I plan to go to with the car eventually its a waste of money and a huge headache to try to tune the car around his tuning using a logger and AFC.

I dont know why I always have to reset the ECU, but everytime I go to the track, I make a run and my mph is like 107, I reset the ECU and it jumps up to 110 and climbs from there. This is straight off the street driving, I think the tune just gets watered down after driving it for a while cause the ECU wants to adjust back to more conservative stock settings, I could be wrong but I have no other explanation for having to reset it constantly.

As far as the timing, I always get the same amount of timing, on low boost and pump gas and high boost and race gas, I dont think Im knocking cause the timing ramps up with no dips, it does dip when I dont have it tuned right, but when I get the AFC dialed in it never drops off, I just dont ever get more then 19, which I know isnt terrible but people post that they get as much as 23, so I think it just might be the timing map Al installed with the flash thats keeping it low. It was a custom dyno tune with 11.2 afr aprox. on pump gas so he might have went slightly conservative on the timing to keep it leaner then his average tune which is in the 10's. But this is the whole issue for me, Im sick of the guessing games, haveing to guess what my car is tuned like and me having to go around it, I need to get a standalone so I have control over everything.

I have an AEM map sensor already thats what my progressive controller runs off of. I will have to switch the TPS input to that, does it really make that large of a difference though even if my AFRs are consistant?

My plugs are pretty new and gapped at .22. Same plugs I ran 12.07 at almost 114 with on C16. I might go back to the track next week with some C16 and not use the W/I to see what happens. I thought the W/I was just supposed to let you run pump gas as race gas, but mine seems to not be supressing knock enough on its own, I might need to turn up the pump PSI. I think it was only at 100 but Ive heard some people running 150 with the M5 nozzle. And 18 PSI is early enough to turn it on?? I thought if you turned it on too late, it wouldnt prevent the detonation. I guess I can try it and see, its just a turn of the knob.

 

You don't really have to get a standalone .. it does give you the best power but it's not necessary .. nothing a good piggyback can't do ..

Here's what happens when you reset the ECU
your timing shoots sky high along with a lean fuel map ..
I've bumped 30 degree timing before on 1st gear after ECU reset .. and you can hear the sandy raspy noise (I believe its ping) between 4500-5500rpms ..
If I'm not wrong .. from there .. the ecu trims it down slowly until its safe .. that's why car is very powerful when new ..but gets slower over time

Actually ... are you trying to run alky or water ?? alky supposedly give you higher octane numbers .. whereas water cools the intake charge .. both seems to do the same thing but they are different applications .. sorry I can't explain .. if you can get Richard Lamb from aquamist .. he's will help you in this area ..

I get more power from running an advanced timing map than from leaning out the fuelling .. I've varied my fuelling from 11.0 to 12.5 (YEAH!!) and I don't really see much of a power gain (there is .. but not much) .. but with only 1 degree of timing .. the change is very significant ..

 

Yeah thats pretty much what Ive been saying, no matter what I only get 19 degrees of advance at REDLINE, before redline its lower. This happens on low boost pump gas or high boost race gas with no knock no matter what the AFR is. I have no way to directly adjust the timing which is the reason I was saying i need a standalone, cause tuning the AFR is really not doing very much at this point when my timing is set low. Does anyone know how Al changes the timing maps? Is it like set in stone at WOT that I will only get as much timing as whatever Al set it to, and only get less from there if it knocks? It certainly seems that way at least, cause I have never logged over 20 degrees of advance in any conditions at WOT.

I am spraying washer fluid right now, 0 degree from walmart which supposedly is one of the better mixtures of meth to water.

 

What piggy back are you running gunzo that lets you adjust timing?

 

ecuplus right now .. excellent support and easy to use ..
check it out www.ecuplus.com


and check out Richard's posts in the tuning section under water injection ..

 

Just wanted to update, my alcohol system was never turning on. Turned out I had a bad connection in the harness, luckily I had 110 in the tank when I turned the boost up and discovered this problem the next day. So all of my tuning efforts and questions about timing may or may not be valid at this point.

I do have another question, Im currently running an M5 nozzle at 150 psi pump pressure and Im not getting any richening of the AFR with it kicked in. My friend with a WRX has the same size nozzle and less HP and he was saying its too small for his car so its way too small for my car. What size nozzle are other people with Evos running? Did you notice the AFRs go very rich before you were tuned for the alcohol?

 

The standard size for EVO kits is a 7.5 gph, which is 50% larger than what you're using now.

Also, if you're running washer fluid, you won't see the effect on A/F as users of straight alcohol for obvious reasons.

BTW, what injection kit are you using?