ACT Clutch After 1 Year of Spirited Driving. Draw Your Own Conclusions.
Feb 9, 2006, 01:06 PM
#16
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A thousand pardons, no trash talk intended. By "support staff" I did not mean the owner of ACT and any of his employees. I was referring to the actual clutch's support staff--the PRESSURE PLATE and FLYWHEEL, THE ITEMS WHICH ASSIST THE CLUTCH TO PERFORM IT'S SPECIFIC DUTIES. Get it?
Mileage=approximately 11k miles.
Moreover, your customer service is not at issue.
I will pm you and you can tell me what it is you would like me to do.
Mileage=approximately 11k miles.
Moreover, your customer service is not at issue.
I will pm you and you can tell me what it is you would like me to do.
Last edited by Bogie; Feb 9, 2006 at 01:29 PM.
Feb 9, 2006, 01:06 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by WOT
What is that red stuff on the flywheel & pressure plate? is that rust on the flywheel & pressure plate?
Feb 9, 2006, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Bogie
A thousand pardons, no trash talk intended, by "support staff" I meant PRESSURE PLATE and FLYWHEEL
Feb 9, 2006, 01:27 PM
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Im still thinking of going with an ACT for my EVO when I need to replace. I'm still on the stocker with 35,000 and pretty agressive driving.
I had an ACT 2600 on my GSX and was VERY happy with that. Car was making well north of 400whp, and saw the track from time to time. Loved the feel and it seemed to still be holding fine when I finally sold the car.
I had an ACT 2600 on my GSX and was VERY happy with that. Car was making well north of 400whp, and saw the track from time to time. Loved the feel and it seemed to still be holding fine when I finally sold the car.
Feb 9, 2006, 01:54 PM
#20
I have almost 20,000 miles on my ACT. I have never experienced a lockout problem at high RPMs. I can shift at 7700 all day. This is mostly highway miles. The only time the clutch is slightly unhappy is stop and go traffic combined with an incline. The grabbier clutch does not like to go off/on/off/on repeatedly. It holds much better than stock however, and if I even had a problem I could drive out to Lancaster or take it to RRE who did the install.
Feb 9, 2006, 06:19 PM
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Bogie, you seem straight up, and AMS is one of the best, no doubt. I'm not questioning either of you.
What my simple mind sees in the pics is the inner 1/2 of the wear surfaces of the disc are worn down, compared to the outer 1/2. My thoughts..... (as simple as they are), the pressure plate and flywheel were not true to begin with. The inner 1/2 of your clutch was taking the motherload of wear during the first portion of clutch life (call it 75%). While the outer portion was taking no wear. Sooner or later, the inner 1/2 wore down, and the outer 1/2 started to take the bulk of the load. That's ok, as the outer 1/2 should be able to hold more torque vs. the inner 1/2 and everything at this point seems fine and the clutch hasn't yet started to slip badly. As it continues to wear, the inner 1/2 eventually loses contact and all torque must be held by the outer 1/2. I don't have a geometry book in front of me, but you still have about 75% of the overall surface area working, so things seem fine. But as you get on down the road and experience more clutch wear, the outer 1/2 starts to get overwhelmed and slip. Hence the blue on the outer 1/2 of the band of the flywheel and pressure plate, but the inner 1/2 looks like it wasn't making good enough contact to even generate enough heat to blue the surface of the friction areas, just wiping the surface!
The tell tale will be the back of the flywheel. Is there any blueing on the inner 1/2? If not, I'm completely in left field and you can ignore this post.
What my simple mind sees in the pics is the inner 1/2 of the wear surfaces of the disc are worn down, compared to the outer 1/2. My thoughts..... (as simple as they are), the pressure plate and flywheel were not true to begin with. The inner 1/2 of your clutch was taking the motherload of wear during the first portion of clutch life (call it 75%). While the outer portion was taking no wear. Sooner or later, the inner 1/2 wore down, and the outer 1/2 started to take the bulk of the load. That's ok, as the outer 1/2 should be able to hold more torque vs. the inner 1/2 and everything at this point seems fine and the clutch hasn't yet started to slip badly. As it continues to wear, the inner 1/2 eventually loses contact and all torque must be held by the outer 1/2. I don't have a geometry book in front of me, but you still have about 75% of the overall surface area working, so things seem fine. But as you get on down the road and experience more clutch wear, the outer 1/2 starts to get overwhelmed and slip. Hence the blue on the outer 1/2 of the band of the flywheel and pressure plate, but the inner 1/2 looks like it wasn't making good enough contact to even generate enough heat to blue the surface of the friction areas, just wiping the surface!
The tell tale will be the back of the flywheel. Is there any blueing on the inner 1/2? If not, I'm completely in left field and you can ignore this post.
Feb 9, 2006, 09:20 PM
#22
Originally Posted by Bogie
Hi again.
2) Original flywheel was machined and re-installed.
3) Car has modest performance upgrades: Drop-in filter, Cat-back, MBC (20), custom flash.
4) I can "heel and toe" quite well, been tracking since '98, driving stick since '93.
As I wrote above "Draw your own conclusions." Perhaps I can't drive a manual
2) Original flywheel was machined and re-installed.
3) Car has modest performance upgrades: Drop-in filter, Cat-back, MBC (20), custom flash.
4) I can "heel and toe" quite well, been tracking since '98, driving stick since '93.
As I wrote above "Draw your own conclusions." Perhaps I can't drive a manual
Feb 9, 2006, 11:38 PM
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Bogie said the Flywheel was machined..If too much material was removed from the surface it will dramatically reduce P-plate clamping force and will cause excesive wear in adition performance clutches are prone to premature wear if not properly broken in. The surface of the cluth has to be "married" to the flywheel in the first hours of use. My 2cents. Either way it's not supposed to fail in 10 months of use.
Feb 10, 2006, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by DaWorstPlaya
Sorry if it seemed like I said you couldn't drive. From what you have typed, it seems you know what you are talking about and know how to drive but I personally don't know because I haven't seen you drive in person. Unfortunately there is too much noise to signal ratio on this forum. But what dubbleugly01 said see like a plausible explanation.
Feb 17, 2006, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Bogie
...I will pm you and you can tell me what it is you would like me to do.
Mar 10, 2006, 03:37 PM
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I just wanted to follow up on this. We got your parts in and tested them. Now we can draw some real conclusions.
The pressure plate tested at just over 2900lb which is great. The disc measured .291" thick on the inside and .280 on the outside. The difference is because they have been running against warped parts for some time. For reference new is .307-.310" and worn out is around .230" so the disc had about 30% worn away. The disc was severely overheated at some time, probably not too recently which cooked the resin that holds the friction fibers together so there were chunks out of it which is what you see in the photos. The flywheel and pressure plate casting was blue on the backside and had a lot of sever hot spots. The flywheel was warped .007" and the pressure plate was warped .019" which is typical from an abused clutch. The parts would still work fine for a long time except for taking a bit more travel to operate because of the warpage.
The disc is designed to pull heat away from the surface and soak it up by using a lot of copper in the material and it did what it could. If the disc soaked up less heat, the flywheel and pressure plate would see a lot more warpage. If it soaked up more heat, the material would have all come off.
The parts are usable as is and nothing failed, but I would strongly recommend rebuilding the parts since we can make them basically as good as new and save a bunch of money over buying a new unit. My customer service people told me that the owner was going to email me with what he wanted to do, but I havn't heard from him yet.
The pressure plate tested at just over 2900lb which is great. The disc measured .291" thick on the inside and .280 on the outside. The difference is because they have been running against warped parts for some time. For reference new is .307-.310" and worn out is around .230" so the disc had about 30% worn away. The disc was severely overheated at some time, probably not too recently which cooked the resin that holds the friction fibers together so there were chunks out of it which is what you see in the photos. The flywheel and pressure plate casting was blue on the backside and had a lot of sever hot spots. The flywheel was warped .007" and the pressure plate was warped .019" which is typical from an abused clutch. The parts would still work fine for a long time except for taking a bit more travel to operate because of the warpage.
The disc is designed to pull heat away from the surface and soak it up by using a lot of copper in the material and it did what it could. If the disc soaked up less heat, the flywheel and pressure plate would see a lot more warpage. If it soaked up more heat, the material would have all come off.
The parts are usable as is and nothing failed, but I would strongly recommend rebuilding the parts since we can make them basically as good as new and save a bunch of money over buying a new unit. My customer service people told me that the owner was going to email me with what he wanted to do, but I havn't heard from him yet.
Mar 10, 2006, 04:00 PM
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wow...this is surprising...ACT from what i have heard of and the products that i have have been flawless i had the act extreme clutch in my LS-Tubro integra and did over 50 hard launches haa and thast clutch lasted longer then the tranny...clutch was perfect 3rd gear was bad....I have the excedy twin disk now....and i'll tell u that think is a PIECE OF $hit....had it for 10k and and center plate warped...been to the track 1 time w/ it and I WISH the costomer support with excedy was 1/2 as good as ACT b/c excedy customer support really sucks....i'm puting an ACT clutch in my car now and know i'll be happy...hopfully excedy will replace my twindisk b/c it is a defect in manufacturing.
Mar 10, 2006, 04:11 PM
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Just from looking at those pics, without having even read ACT's comments, I can tell you that it's probably a poor break in procedure with the clutch and flywheel.
What I've learned, the HARD WAY, is that when you're doing a clutch swap, ALWAYS mate a fresh stock flywheel to the aftermarket clutch. . .machining the stock flywheel down usually works, but clearly in this case, the small areas that weren't nicely ground down caused the uneven warapage and led to the hot spots.
I've done this myself on a BRAND NEW clutch and flywheel, and I ended up destroying the lightened flywheel and getting a horrible chatter because I didn't bed the clutch to the flywheel right. . .so moral of the story: use a fresh flywheel (even though it's $$$, save you $$$ in the long run just because of the labor to do ANOTHER install!) and break in the clutch for 600miles of easy city driving. 3 tanks of gas is tough for most of us, but at least those 600miles will allow you to use your high performance clutch last 30-45k miles.
Good luck with the install. . .
What I've learned, the HARD WAY, is that when you're doing a clutch swap, ALWAYS mate a fresh stock flywheel to the aftermarket clutch. . .machining the stock flywheel down usually works, but clearly in this case, the small areas that weren't nicely ground down caused the uneven warapage and led to the hot spots.
I've done this myself on a BRAND NEW clutch and flywheel, and I ended up destroying the lightened flywheel and getting a horrible chatter because I didn't bed the clutch to the flywheel right. . .so moral of the story: use a fresh flywheel (even though it's $$$, save you $$$ in the long run just because of the labor to do ANOTHER install!) and break in the clutch for 600miles of easy city driving. 3 tanks of gas is tough for most of us, but at least those 600miles will allow you to use your high performance clutch last 30-45k miles.
Good luck with the install. . .
Mar 11, 2006, 08:47 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by ACTman
I just wanted to follow up on this. We got your parts in and tested them. Now we can draw some real conclusions.
The pressure plate tested at just over 2900lb which is great. The disc measured .291" thick on the inside and .280 on the outside. The difference is because they have been running against warped parts for some time. For reference new is .307-.310" and worn out is around .230" so the disc had about 30% worn away. The disc was severely overheated at some time, probably not too recently which cooked the resin that holds the friction fibers together so there were chunks out of it which is what you see in the photos. The flywheel and pressure plate casting was blue on the backside and had a lot of sever hot spots. The flywheel was warped .007" and the pressure plate was warped .019" which is typical from an abused clutch. The parts would still work fine for a long time except for taking a bit more travel to operate because of the warpage.
The disc is designed to pull heat away from the surface and soak it up by using a lot of copper in the material and it did what it could. If the disc soaked up less heat, the flywheel and pressure plate would see a lot more warpage. If it soaked up more heat, the material would have all come off.
The parts are usable as is and nothing failed, but I would strongly recommend rebuilding the parts since we can make them basically as good as new and save a bunch of money over buying a new unit. My customer service people told me that the owner was going to email me with what he wanted to do, but I havn't heard from him yet.
The pressure plate tested at just over 2900lb which is great. The disc measured .291" thick on the inside and .280 on the outside. The difference is because they have been running against warped parts for some time. For reference new is .307-.310" and worn out is around .230" so the disc had about 30% worn away. The disc was severely overheated at some time, probably not too recently which cooked the resin that holds the friction fibers together so there were chunks out of it which is what you see in the photos. The flywheel and pressure plate casting was blue on the backside and had a lot of sever hot spots. The flywheel was warped .007" and the pressure plate was warped .019" which is typical from an abused clutch. The parts would still work fine for a long time except for taking a bit more travel to operate because of the warpage.
The disc is designed to pull heat away from the surface and soak it up by using a lot of copper in the material and it did what it could. If the disc soaked up less heat, the flywheel and pressure plate would see a lot more warpage. If it soaked up more heat, the material would have all come off.
The parts are usable as is and nothing failed, but I would strongly recommend rebuilding the parts since we can make them basically as good as new and save a bunch of money over buying a new unit. My customer service people told me that the owner was going to email me with what he wanted to do, but I havn't heard from him yet.
It took me THREE MONTHS to post the pictures, waiting only three days for a response -- regarding whether I should pay an additional $100 + shipping on a used, rebuilt clutch and then reusing a flywheel (especially when it's being suggested that I use a new flywheel) and pp after already having a new clutch, flywheel, pp installed back in November-- really isn't that long....hmmmm...What should I do? What should I do? What should I do?
Originally Posted by shivaswrath
Just from looking at those pics, without having even read ACT's comments, I can tell you that it's probably a poor break in procedure with the clutch and flywheel.
...600miles of easy city driving. 3 tanks of gas is tough for most of us, but at least those 600miles will allow you to use your high performance clutch last 30-45k miles...
...600miles of easy city driving. 3 tanks of gas is tough for most of us, but at least those 600miles will allow you to use your high performance clutch last 30-45k miles...
Mar 11, 2006, 10:58 AM
#30
Originally Posted by Bogie
Hi. Actman, I call you out, so in defense, you call me out, eh? I apologize. I'm sorry I called your clutch out. Perhaps the clutch, pp, and flywheel are not "fried" as I stated. However, the clutch face might be sound, but how are the backing plates (I'm not sure what they are called), were their condition compromised? You do suggest a "rebuilding..."
It took me THREE MONTHS to post the pictures, waiting only three days for a response -- regarding whether I should pay an additional $100 + shipping on a used, rebuilt clutch and then reusing a flywheel (especially when it's being suggested that I use a new flywheel) and pp after already having a new clutch, flywheel, pp installed back in November-- really isn't that long....hmmmm...What should I do? What should I do? What should I do?
I'm 42 years old, I may not know when a clutch is "fried, " but I do know better than to "Get on it" right away. Maybe I can't drive stick
It took me THREE MONTHS to post the pictures, waiting only three days for a response -- regarding whether I should pay an additional $100 + shipping on a used, rebuilt clutch and then reusing a flywheel (especially when it's being suggested that I use a new flywheel) and pp after already having a new clutch, flywheel, pp installed back in November-- really isn't that long....hmmmm...What should I do? What should I do? What should I do?
I'm 42 years old, I may not know when a clutch is "fried, " but I do know better than to "Get on it" right away. Maybe I can't drive stick
Are you open to the idea that the flywheel wasn't machined correctly, and this may have led to your problems?