I hear you on the Revolver package but what is the need for upgraded valve train at your level of mods? People are running the stock valvetrain quite often to 8k, and some to even 8500. I was just pointing out where you could've cut costs.

What are you logging data with on manifolds?

Good to hear Franz's thoughts on the Megan manifold...I respect his opinion very much. What did he have to say about the megan 02 housing, if anything?

 

Anja, I think you have to upgrade the valvetrain to run the Revolvers, or it's at least highly recommended.

 

What failsafes are you referring to? The ECU can retard timing when it detects knock, but it doesn't know how to cut back boost unless you go in limp mode maybe. Plus, with that pill you have in there forcing the boost to go to 25.5psi in _3rd_ gear, I'm not sure if the ECU can lower it much even if it wanted to...

 

I understand that, I was pointing out that upgraded valvetrain is unneccessary if he had gone with the more common GSC/HKS/Buddy Club cams.

 

Oh yes, that's for sure, and we talked about that before he installed all this stuff, but he was dead-set on the Revolvers despite having the stock turbo and stock MAF. Since the guy at KTR had them on his Evo with EcuTek, he went ahead and did it. I think he could have made his car MUCH faster for the money spent if he wasn't so stuck on those Revolvers, but he wasn't interested.

 

Franz has the DNP Mani on his evo......isn't the Megan extremely similar to the DNP?

 

I feel for this guy. I was the same way in that I really wanted the Revolvers to make big power for me over and above the "cookie cutter" HKS cams. The fact is that they just don't seem to make power on moderately-modified cars. Even my GT3071 wasn't able to make more power with them than my 264's. As a side note, after going through 2 sets of Revolvers, I've really learned to appreciate a nice idle. But hey, it's a nice valvetrain kit that works perfectly with HKS cams .

 

a few things of note:

franz never had revolver cams with stock ecu/EcuTek... has many customers that have revolver cams on stock ecus, but he never did...

look at the torque numbers and width of the power band.. that is where the revolvers shine...

the complete valvetrain upgrade is necessary for the revolver cams because of the lift, not maximum rpm... that is why the cams come with the valvetrain... there is much more to the revolvers than a 100% throttle power pull on a dyno... throttle response, boost response and power band, make these cams fantastic for street/backroad/trackday driving, where you find yourself driving around 3300~4000 rpm, not at 6500rpm (drag racing)...

as far as the size of the 'pills', that is not all that was done with the ecu... there have been significant changes to both requested boost, maximum duty cycle, overboost limit, turbo dynamics maps at all engine revolutions that make running a higher requested pressure on 93 octane safe (as well as 'safe' timing maps and fuel maps)...

not to start up a 'dyno debate' because we have all had enough... but there are so many variables that effect ultimate power readings (both hp/tq)... things such as: operator error (dyno procedure), correction used, tire pressure, environment (ie. oils/fuels/exhaust reciculating through room), type of dyno... on KTR's dyno (dyno dynamics) a stock 8 puts down 210-215whp... a stock 9 does the same, but with more torque (roughly equal to whp)... the strongest 264 cammed evo i have seen made ~270 whp (this stands true for car that have dyno'd at KTR that were tuned by other people), wtq for these cars is ~15-20 less than whp... on a stock turbo, hks 280s make almost the same hp number, but are 30 peak w ft/lbs down on the revolvers...


i have personally dyno'd my car at several other 'local' dynos to have a comparisson:

KTR - 298 whp
Pruven - 336 whp (dynojet) (with SAE correction... they don't seem to use correction in the colder months, which will give a larger number)

KTR - 330 whp
F1 Dyno - 410 whp, 445 wtq (land and sea twin 4' rollers)

KTR - 336
ESP - 367 whp (mustang, installed and calibrated days after Buscher's dyno was setup)... for some strange reason, they started the dyno pull at 4000 rpm, which hurts peak torque and power numbers

and just for good info...

KTR - 298
Gtech Pro RR - 298.6 trace falls almost identically over Dyno Dynamics plot, with exception of noting bumps in road for Gtech plot...

we have had several cars dyno at both KTR and else where and have yet to see another dyno that doesn't read MUCH MUCH higher.

(cold winter days will typically be in negative correction, while hotter summer days will be positive)... so it is beneficial to give customers 'higher numbers' because it is easier for the ego.

Warrtalon: if you are ever in Massachussettes, you are more than welcome to stop by KTR and get free dyno pulls.

 

Thanks, I'll do that if I'm ever over there to see comparison dyno numbers.

I still don't see how 25+ psi can be safe on 93oct just because of some things you did in EcuTek plus a boost pill. That's as much boost as I run on alky and 93, and I've never seen another Evo run that much boost on straight pump gas. Not to mention this isn't just his boost gauge reading, but an actual MAP readings means it is some serious, serious boost. What's wrong with running 22-23psi, which is still at the upper edge of safety on 93?

 

Is this offer only open to Warrtalon? I've dynoed at Turbotrix's dynojet and would like to see what the difference is compared to numbers produced at KTR....let me know if the offer is extendable to me.

 

sorry, that wasn't a "everybody come down and get free dyno runs offer"...

i have never had any issues in years of setting up evos running 25psi on pump gas... it works well with the revolvers, but not hks... so for hks i don't run them that way...

 

it's all in the tuning. I've read lots of JDM articles about running crazy high boost on relativly low octane (93,94,95) with perfect a/f's and no knock

 

Tuning certainly plays a major role, but other ingredients such as the intercooler and turbo size are also critical.

 

Warrtalon -

In that thread I referred you to earlier with all of Buschur's testing, he ran over 25psi on his RS on a stock style turbo with just 94 octane. As said, with the proper parts, proper tuning and a car that is not knock happy it is possible.

EVOlutionary

 

I am assuming KTR's dyno #'s are also on 93 octane. Right? I find it interesting how 'Shiv from Vishnu' claims that stock IX's are making around 230~235whp on the same Dyno Dynamics (as the KTR's) especially with 91 octane. He also claimed that stock IX's are making a minimum of +15 whp more than stock VIII's. Maybe, difference in dyno caliberation??? Anyone care to explain the discrepancy between these numbers? Thanks.

Sammy