- 20G - TD05HR : Compressor wheel......found, available in the US ?
Originally Posted by dsm_mikey
I think we should be open minded on this wheel until we know for sure whether it works. Just because a particular 6 bladed wheel was not succesful does NOT mean this one will not be. If they are 2 different wheels, lets wait and see.
good find regardless
i was hoping that this would explode like this...
check it out... if anyone has proved that the 20g9-5 makes more power than a 9 turbo on pump gas... i'd love to see it.
SINCE i've heard from rob at fp (one person removed) that the 9 turbo is basically on par with any other stock sized upgrade turbo in terms of pump gas performance. then... i will tell you all here... unless you want to punish the small turbo with race gas... don't bother with anything besides the 9 turbo.
if you want to punish the small turbo with race gas then what you might want is a 5 bladed compressor wheel that will make power because since it's missing a blade... more air can get through with less compressor fin stall and obstruction.
this is the same deal as the white rabbit guys... you didn't get power from that thing until you squeezed the **** out of it.
check it out... if anyone has proved that the 20g9-5 makes more power than a 9 turbo on pump gas... i'd love to see it.
SINCE i've heard from rob at fp (one person removed) that the 9 turbo is basically on par with any other stock sized upgrade turbo in terms of pump gas performance. then... i will tell you all here... unless you want to punish the small turbo with race gas... don't bother with anything besides the 9 turbo.
if you want to punish the small turbo with race gas then what you might want is a 5 bladed compressor wheel that will make power because since it's missing a blade... more air can get through with less compressor fin stall and obstruction.
this is the same deal as the white rabbit guys... you didn't get power from that thing until you squeezed the **** out of it.
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Okay, from my reading on the 5 & 6 Blade designs.......the real issue seems to be that the 6 Blade design flows more air ...fullstop !!
You CAN NOT create more back-pressure without more air, so the 6 Blade design has to flow more air, its just that simple. You want more proof, Buschur even said the intake temps were higher.....what does that tell you ? It means the 16G Housing is restricting the flow too much from the 6 Blade wheel = higher IATs
How to fix the issue ? Simple, extrude hone the Compressor cover and compare IATs'........if still not on par with the original 16G wheel, have the air gap on the inside machined out a bit, say 1mm at a time to then re-check IATs'.
Still this won't obviously fix the back pressure issue.........the problem here is that the 20G wheel was matched by MHI to the 06 8cm^2 Housing. Obviously the 10.5cm^2 05H Housing still cannot out-flow the original Exhaust Housing the 20G wheel was designed for........therefore without thinning the walls too much on the 10.5 Exhaust Housing, machine/die grind it out to 11 then 11.5 then 12 and so on till you get back-pressure down to original levels. You will notice you only need to take 2.2mm's (assuming a square) of the exact 10.5cm^2 point to get it to 12cm^2 and I doubt you will need to go past 11.5cm^2 to reduce back-pressure back to stock
Anyhow, there is always the doubters so to all of you'se who don't believe, that's ok, go spend your money on a complete new Turbo set-up.......there is no competition for the street characteristics of the original 20G
You CAN NOT create more back-pressure without more air, so the 6 Blade design has to flow more air, its just that simple. You want more proof, Buschur even said the intake temps were higher.....what does that tell you ? It means the 16G Housing is restricting the flow too much from the 6 Blade wheel = higher IATs
How to fix the issue ? Simple, extrude hone the Compressor cover and compare IATs'........if still not on par with the original 16G wheel, have the air gap on the inside machined out a bit, say 1mm at a time to then re-check IATs'.
Still this won't obviously fix the back pressure issue.........the problem here is that the 20G wheel was matched by MHI to the 06 8cm^2 Housing. Obviously the 10.5cm^2 05H Housing still cannot out-flow the original Exhaust Housing the 20G wheel was designed for........therefore without thinning the walls too much on the 10.5 Exhaust Housing, machine/die grind it out to 11 then 11.5 then 12 and so on till you get back-pressure down to original levels. You will notice you only need to take 2.2mm's (assuming a square) of the exact 10.5cm^2 point to get it to 12cm^2 and I doubt you will need to go past 11.5cm^2 to reduce back-pressure back to stock
Anyhow, there is always the doubters so to all of you'se who don't believe, that's ok, go spend your money on a complete new Turbo set-up.......there is no competition for the street characteristics of the original 20G
Originally Posted by a1091156
Okay, from my reading on the 5 & 6 Blade designs.......the real issue seems to be that the 6 Blade design flows more air ...fullstop !!
You CAN NOT create more back-pressure without more air, so the 6 Blade design has to flow more air, its just that simple. You want more proof, Buschur even said the intake temps were higher.....what does that tell you ? It means the 16G Housing is restricting the flow too much from the 6 Blade wheel = higher IATs
How to fix the issue ? Simple, extrude hone the Compressor cover and compare IATs'........if still not on par with the original 16G wheel, have the air gap on the inside machined out a bit, say 1mm at a time to then re-check IATs'.
Still this won't obviously fix the back pressure issue.........the problem here is that the 20G wheel was matched by MHI to the 06 8cm^2 Housing. Obviously the 10.5cm^2 05H Housing still cannot out-flow the original Exhaust Housing the 20G wheel was designed for........therefore without thinning the walls too much on the 10.5 Exhaust Housing, machine/die grind it out to 11 then 11.5 then 12 and so on till you get back-pressure down to original levels. You will notice you only need to take 2.2mm's (assuming a square) of the exact 10.5cm^2 point to get it to 12cm^2 and I doubt you will need to go past 11.5cm^2 to reduce back-pressure back to stock
Anyhow, there is always the doubters so to all of you'se who don't believe, that's ok, go spend your money on a complete new Turbo set-up.......there is no competition for the street characteristics of the original 20G
You CAN NOT create more back-pressure without more air, so the 6 Blade design has to flow more air, its just that simple. You want more proof, Buschur even said the intake temps were higher.....what does that tell you ? It means the 16G Housing is restricting the flow too much from the 6 Blade wheel = higher IATs
How to fix the issue ? Simple, extrude hone the Compressor cover and compare IATs'........if still not on par with the original 16G wheel, have the air gap on the inside machined out a bit, say 1mm at a time to then re-check IATs'.
Still this won't obviously fix the back pressure issue.........the problem here is that the 20G wheel was matched by MHI to the 06 8cm^2 Housing. Obviously the 10.5cm^2 05H Housing still cannot out-flow the original Exhaust Housing the 20G wheel was designed for........therefore without thinning the walls too much on the 10.5 Exhaust Housing, machine/die grind it out to 11 then 11.5 then 12 and so on till you get back-pressure down to original levels. You will notice you only need to take 2.2mm's (assuming a square) of the exact 10.5cm^2 point to get it to 12cm^2 and I doubt you will need to go past 11.5cm^2 to reduce back-pressure back to stock
Anyhow, there is always the doubters so to all of you'se who don't believe, that's ok, go spend your money on a complete new Turbo set-up.......there is no competition for the street characteristics of the original 20G
not to say that compressor design comes down to a number of fins, but garrett seems to do just fine with 6 blade designs, in fact the new 800 whp favorite "sfwd" turbo the GT40R comes with 7 blades.
hows this for a novel idea... lets do a 1 blade compressor, im sure the IATS will be so low, cause it wont be able to compress squat worth of air.
hows this for a novel idea... lets do a 1 blade compressor, im sure the IATS will be so low, cause it wont be able to compress squat worth of air.
.... does anyone know which housings this guy is talkin' about?
how do you automatically deduce that the hot side is the restriction? hot side being the restriction doesn't automatically increase intake air temps.
inefficienctly compressing air also creates higher air temps. if a compressor wheel isn't able to flow more air it will also create higher intake air temps.
for fun, why don't you put a 35r hot side on a 20g-9 cold side... (even tho that's not possible) you will not fix any problems. why do i say this? cuz buschur's motor has every flow efficient thing done to it. that's why his numbers are not reliably taken by "mere mortals" the 10.5 is able to sustain this without elevated EXHAUST temps... as in he's still able to quench the back pressures induced.
the other issue all together is that it doesn't matter if a blah blah blade flows more... if the combination of the housing and the blade don't flow you're still up **** creek with only your hands to propel you.
gt40r comes wtih 7 blades? of course it does... it has more intake volume.
what's the problem here? there's NOT ENOUGH INTAKE VOLUME IN THE "CHAMBER" (housing blade assembly) to let air through. that's why you take out one blade to give the overall "chamber" more volume. basically you REMOVE one restriction.
if the compressor housing is the restriction you cannot make a bigger blade and hope to flow more air, you're gonna make a bigger blade and STOP more air.
how do you automatically deduce that the hot side is the restriction? hot side being the restriction doesn't automatically increase intake air temps.
inefficienctly compressing air also creates higher air temps. if a compressor wheel isn't able to flow more air it will also create higher intake air temps.
for fun, why don't you put a 35r hot side on a 20g-9 cold side... (even tho that's not possible) you will not fix any problems. why do i say this? cuz buschur's motor has every flow efficient thing done to it. that's why his numbers are not reliably taken by "mere mortals" the 10.5 is able to sustain this without elevated EXHAUST temps... as in he's still able to quench the back pressures induced.
the other issue all together is that it doesn't matter if a blah blah blade flows more... if the combination of the housing and the blade don't flow you're still up **** creek with only your hands to propel you.
gt40r comes wtih 7 blades? of course it does... it has more intake volume.
what's the problem here? there's NOT ENOUGH INTAKE VOLUME IN THE "CHAMBER" (housing blade assembly) to let air through. that's why you take out one blade to give the overall "chamber" more volume. basically you REMOVE one restriction.
if the compressor housing is the restriction you cannot make a bigger blade and hope to flow more air, you're gonna make a bigger blade and STOP more air.
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Originally Posted by trinydex
.... does anyone know which housings this guy is talkin' about?
how do you automatically deduce that the hot side is the restriction? hot side being the restriction doesn't automatically increase intake air temps.
inefficienctly compressing air also creates higher air temps. if a compressor wheel isn't able to flow more air it will also create higher intake air temps.
for fun, why don't you put a 35r hot side on a 20g-9 cold side... (even tho that's not possible) you will not fix any problems. why do i say this? cuz buschur's motor has every flow efficient thing done to it. that's why his numbers are not reliably taken by "mere mortals" the 10.5 is able to sustain this without elevated EXHAUST temps... as in he's still able to quench the back pressures induced.
the other issue all together is that it doesn't matter if a blah blah blade flows more... if the combination of the housing and the blade don't flow you're still up **** creek with only your hands to propel you.
gt40r comes wtih 7 blades? of course it does... it has more intake volume.
what's the problem here? there's NOT ENOUGH INTAKE VOLUME IN THE "CHAMBER" (housing blade assembly) to let air through. that's why you take out one blade to give the overall "chamber" more volume. basically you REMOVE one restriction.
if the compressor housing is the restriction you cannot make a bigger blade and hope to flow more air, you're gonna make a bigger blade and STOP more air.
how do you automatically deduce that the hot side is the restriction? hot side being the restriction doesn't automatically increase intake air temps.
inefficienctly compressing air also creates higher air temps. if a compressor wheel isn't able to flow more air it will also create higher intake air temps.
for fun, why don't you put a 35r hot side on a 20g-9 cold side... (even tho that's not possible) you will not fix any problems. why do i say this? cuz buschur's motor has every flow efficient thing done to it. that's why his numbers are not reliably taken by "mere mortals" the 10.5 is able to sustain this without elevated EXHAUST temps... as in he's still able to quench the back pressures induced.
the other issue all together is that it doesn't matter if a blah blah blade flows more... if the combination of the housing and the blade don't flow you're still up **** creek with only your hands to propel you.
gt40r comes wtih 7 blades? of course it does... it has more intake volume.
what's the problem here? there's NOT ENOUGH INTAKE VOLUME IN THE "CHAMBER" (housing blade assembly) to let air through. that's why you take out one blade to give the overall "chamber" more volume. basically you REMOVE one restriction.
if the compressor housing is the restriction you cannot make a bigger blade and hope to flow more air, you're gonna make a bigger blade and STOP more air.
Both the intake and exhuast side of the Turbo are restrictions. Buschur claimed Exhaust back-pressure went up when running the 6-Blade wheel over the 5-Blade variant.........
So anyhow, we both agree, the 6-Blade design must obviously flow more then the 5 Balde variant
Yes the compressor housing volume/design is the restriction, which is why internal airgap along with the Compressor housings outlet ID needs to be increased till the IATs' drop back down to stock levels to take advantge of max-flow from the 6-Blade 20G Wheel
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If you did a 3D diagram of the volume a 5 Blade & 6 Blade 20G occupies at 140,000+rpm, it would be the same ! 
The only thing that 1 blade less has achieved is less flow since it works better with the 16G Housing
The only thing that 1 blade less has achieved is less flow since it works better with the 16G Housing
funny it then makes more hp huh?
the fact is that the 20 blade is not well matched to the housings of any evo turbo (apparently)
a housing should not have to grow to accomodate a a blade... the most efficient turbo uses blades that fill the housing as much as physically possible.
funny you don't at all address the 9 turbo which does just fine in its housing that is borrowed to unmuck these other "wheels"
the fact is that the 20 blade is not well matched to the housings of any evo turbo (apparently)
a housing should not have to grow to accomodate a a blade... the most efficient turbo uses blades that fill the housing as much as physically possible.
funny you don't at all address the 9 turbo which does just fine in its housing that is borrowed to unmuck these other "wheels"
your solutions are bandaids... i thought i made that clear in my post. the wheel is not well suited... why is that not clear?
the 9 blade IS well suited... that's why it's relevant. 6 blade or not the 9 wheel filled the housing it was made for and flows to match.
the 9 blade IS well suited... that's why it's relevant. 6 blade or not the 9 wheel filled the housing it was made for and flows to match.