stock intercooler sufficient for 50 trim kit
Nov 15, 2006, 06:49 PM
#16
Originally Posted by 94AWDcoupe
I have seen a stock intercooler on a dsm lay down 380whp/380tq at 19psi on a 57 trim turbo. later that week it was tuned on the street at 29psi and was absolutely flying for the setup. Had to be making 450whp+. What you guys are not putting into the equation is the stock turbo at 29psi blows well over 400 degree air out of the turbo. A 50trim at 25psi blows about 325 degree air. The intercooler does not have to work as hard at removing heat. I dont have dyno proof but I bet anybody lunch it would be no problem laying down 450whp with a 50trim and stock intercooler.
Amen.
Nov 15, 2006, 08:34 PM
#17
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I don't think it would be a question as to if it could lay down 400hp, but more of a question of if it could consistently lay down 400hp. the longer you're on boost, the hotter the ic will get...
Nov 16, 2006, 08:54 AM
#18
I think aftermarket FMICs are one of the biggest rip offs on EVO-M. If you have money falling out your **** and you want the bling of a huge (read: heavy) fmic then go for it.
A 50 trim on pump gas @ 22 PSI will make 400HP and that turbo wont even be breathing heavy. The stock FMIC will be plenty good for this. If he wants to head to the track all he has to do is toss in some 100 octane and crank the boost. The stock FMIC will still be plenty good. Ask any racer....any real racer.... and they'll tell you if you run race gas odds are you'll see next to no gains from a huge FMIC. This is especially true if you are only running the car hard for 12 seconds or less.
It is silly to run the stock turbo at 30psi. You are simply asking for trouble. Why would you want to turn the thing into a mini flame thrower? You might pick up some torque down low but for the risk you are taking, you aren't gaining much of a useable powerband for drag racing.
A 50 trim on pump gas @ 22 PSI will make 400HP and that turbo wont even be breathing heavy. The stock FMIC will be plenty good for this. If he wants to head to the track all he has to do is toss in some 100 octane and crank the boost. The stock FMIC will still be plenty good. Ask any racer....any real racer.... and they'll tell you if you run race gas odds are you'll see next to no gains from a huge FMIC. This is especially true if you are only running the car hard for 12 seconds or less.
It is silly to run the stock turbo at 30psi. You are simply asking for trouble. Why would you want to turn the thing into a mini flame thrower? You might pick up some torque down low but for the risk you are taking, you aren't gaining much of a useable powerband for drag racing.
Nov 16, 2006, 10:19 AM
#19
????????????????? 
I have AEM proof that even some aftermarket intercoolers inhibit hp. For instance I have dyno pulls when I had a buschur delux fmic and my charged air temp went way up...from mid 90's to 130*!!!!!!! Thats an aftermarket fmic and a well known and widely used one! i have an ATP 3071 @ 26-27 psi. Forget about a stock one if the buschur one is at 130*+.
Further proof is 5 different cars with different aftermarket intercoolers and the charged intake temp. went up maybe 10* max on a gt35r at 30 psi.
I then upgraded to a buschur racing core(4" instead of 3") that along with a different boost controler my power went up 40 whp and 35 wtq. Looked at the data logs and guess what...my intake temp went up about 8* at the end of a pull= more horsepower & torque with a good intercooler.
Like I said, I have proof of this. with a turbo kit it is almost mandatory it you want to put down consistant power. If you live in iceland you will probably ok on the stock intercooler.
I have AEM proof that even some aftermarket intercoolers inhibit hp. For instance I have dyno pulls when I had a buschur delux fmic and my charged air temp went way up...from mid 90's to 130*!!!!!!! Thats an aftermarket fmic and a well known and widely used one! i have an ATP 3071 @ 26-27 psi. Forget about a stock one if the buschur one is at 130*+. Further proof is 5 different cars with different aftermarket intercoolers and the charged intake temp. went up maybe 10* max on a gt35r at 30 psi.
I then upgraded to a buschur racing core(4" instead of 3") that along with a different boost controler my power went up 40 whp and 35 wtq. Looked at the data logs and guess what...my intake temp went up about 8* at the end of a pull= more horsepower & torque with a good intercooler.
Like I said, I have proof of this. with a turbo kit it is almost mandatory it you want to put down consistant power. If you live in iceland you will probably ok on the stock intercooler.
Originally Posted by Jeff_Jeske
I think aftermarket FMICs are one of the biggest rip offs on EVO-M. If you have money falling out your **** and you want the bling of a huge (read: heavy) fmic then go for it.
A 50 trim on pump gas @ 22 PSI will make 400HP and that turbo wont even be breathing heavy. The stock FMIC will be plenty good for this. If he wants to head to the track all he has to do is toss in some 100 octane and crank the boost. The stock FMIC will still be plenty good. Ask any racer....any real racer.... and they'll tell you if you run race gas odds are you'll see next to no gains from a huge FMIC. This is especially true if you are only running the car hard for 12 seconds or less.
It is silly to run the stock turbo at 30psi. You are simply asking for trouble. Why would you want to turn the thing into a mini flame thrower? You might pick up some torque down low but for the risk you are taking, you aren't gaining much of a useable powerband for drag racing.
A 50 trim on pump gas @ 22 PSI will make 400HP and that turbo wont even be breathing heavy. The stock FMIC will be plenty good for this. If he wants to head to the track all he has to do is toss in some 100 octane and crank the boost. The stock FMIC will still be plenty good. Ask any racer....any real racer.... and they'll tell you if you run race gas odds are you'll see next to no gains from a huge FMIC. This is especially true if you are only running the car hard for 12 seconds or less.
It is silly to run the stock turbo at 30psi. You are simply asking for trouble. Why would you want to turn the thing into a mini flame thrower? You might pick up some torque down low but for the risk you are taking, you aren't gaining much of a useable powerband for drag racing.
Nov 16, 2006, 10:53 AM
#20
Now lower your boost to 22 psi and see what happens.
BTW there is a hell of a lot more air flow going across that FMIC in "real life" than a pansy **** little fan can toss at it on a dyno.
In this scenario..... a 50 trim at 22psi..... the stock FMIC will be fine for drag racing.
BTW there is a hell of a lot more air flow going across that FMIC in "real life" than a pansy **** little fan can toss at it on a dyno.
In this scenario..... a 50 trim at 22psi..... the stock FMIC will be fine for drag racing.
Nov 16, 2006, 11:07 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by Jeff_Jeske
Now lower your boost to 22 psi and see what happens.
BTW there is a hell of a lot more air flow going across that FMIC in "real life" than a pansy **** little fan can toss at it on a dyno.
In this scenario..... a 50 trim at 22psi..... the stock FMIC will be fine for drag racing.
BTW there is a hell of a lot more air flow going across that FMIC in "real life" than a pansy **** little fan can toss at it on a dyno.
In this scenario..... a 50 trim at 22psi..... the stock FMIC will be fine for drag racing.
Nov 16, 2006, 11:13 AM
#22
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Stocker depending on the area you live in may or may not handle a 50trim, if you add meth injection to the mix you might be able to get away with the stocker in hotter areas but it would definitely benefit from a pruven fmic...
Nov 16, 2006, 11:13 AM
#23
Originally Posted by Evo2Envy
I don't think it would be a question as to if it could lay down 400hp, but more of a question of if it could consistently lay down 400hp. the longer you're on boost, the hotter the ic will get...
Nov 16, 2006, 11:19 AM
#24
Originally Posted by Soon2BEVO
So you think that aftermarket intercoolers dont cool better than stock? Im not arguing the flow aspect since I know stock can obviously handle a 50trim on pump gas.
Most people don't need one. I road race the crap out of my EVO and when I come in after a 30 minute session.... my hotside is warm but my cold side is cool. Even for road racing I dont need a 4" thick intercooler.
Furthermore.....race gas can pretty much fix any knock or timing pull you might have from heatsoaking. If this guy did want to crank up the boost and ran race gas, I doubt he would see any gains from a bigger FMIC.
Nov 16, 2006, 11:55 AM
#25
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I agree not everyone needs a FMIC but I have one on my stock turbo and I felt no increase in spool time and it definitely helps in the summer time thats for damn sure.
If the aftermarket is cooling more, its dropping the temps of the air entering the engine. I dont see how that is a waste of money.
If the aftermarket is cooling more, its dropping the temps of the air entering the engine. I dont see how that is a waste of money.
Nov 16, 2006, 01:32 PM
#26
Originally Posted by Soon2BEVO
I agree not everyone needs a FMIC but I have one on my stock turbo and I felt no increase in spool time and it definitely helps in the summer time thats for damn sure.
If the aftermarket is cooling more, its dropping the temps of the air entering the engine. I dont see how that is a waste of money.
If the aftermarket is cooling more, its dropping the temps of the air entering the engine. I dont see how that is a waste of money.
Nov 16, 2006, 01:40 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by sonicnofadz
How much power did you gain? How much did you spend?
Nov 16, 2006, 01:42 PM
#28
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I dont see what could be the big argument. I think its mutually agreeable that a good aftermarket FMIC will COOL better than the stock unit. If its cooling the air more its going to add power.
Nov 16, 2006, 01:52 PM
#29
You people don't seem to be getting the point. Yes. An aftermarket intercooler will cool better, however if you are using the stock turbo there isn't much air to cool to begin with! The stock turbo is a little tiny hair dryer of a turbo. There is no way you can heat soak the stock FMIC with the stock turbo unless you live in a very hot climate and are running high boost pressures. Basically, if you are running the stock turbo, an aftermarket FMIC is OVERKILL and will only net you 2-3 HP if that. I can think of alot of other things to spend $700 on that will give me alot more that 3 hp. Get the picture?
Nov 16, 2006, 01:57 PM
#30
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I think its agreed upon that a FMIC on the stock turbo is REALLY more of an asset with bigger turbo and higher boost levels. Also, saying " there isn't much air to cool to begin with" is false. The stock turbo isnt making 250whp, it flows a damn decent amount of air. Its not THAT tiny and its blowing hot air even at 22-23psi. Also, since I gained 32/42 from manifold, 02 and FMIC, I guess those are 2 pretty serious mods huh.