So, what your saying is that is that Caronetics is crap, or at least the manufacted poorly? I can't really tell, the picture comes out in a blue monochromatic coloring on my screen.

 

the picture was taken with a phone. i could scan the disk with my scanner or else take a picture with an 8mp camera

 

Not saying the clutch is crap. I think this floater cracking is an extremely rare event. The pic is clear enough to show there was no exessive heat in the floater. Its not hard to tell when metal surfaces get hot in a clutch. I would send the clucth to ATS and ask them to fix for free. I bet they would if you ask nicely.

 

It is going to be difficult to know if it got hot since the floaters are phosphate coated (not sure if that is the exact coating they use). They are not going to show the pretty colors if they were overheated like bare steel does. Carbon doesn't tend to tear up the surfaces like cerametallic materials do when overheated.

 

Thanks for being a condescending pr!ck. Way to represent your company.

Actually I was at PRI in Orlando in December and spoke to Exedy, O.S. Giken, and Titon in ENGLISH since we were in AMERICA and that's what we do here. And yes, that's what all three of them recommended. And way back when I bought my Exedy twin cerametallic from DB, he told me something similar, though for different reasons. He said carbon wasn't good for a street application, plus I didn't need a carbon clutch at my power levels.

Maybe the US employees of these companies are all a bunch of ***-clowns, but they all agreed, so I thought maybe they knew something. But I guess they could be wrong. Perhaps they all got together at an ***-clown convention and came up with the same stupid story to tell us Americans so we DON'T but their more expensive products. I must admit, I expected a little more from you since John Shepherd and Brent Rau both run your clutches.

 

Sorry if I hit a nerve. If I came across as a "condescending pr!ck" I didn't mean to. It's a public forum, not a political debate so I was poking fun at you since the parts are engineered in Japan. I have no doubt that your intentions are sincere to pass on information. I just don't think you quite have all the information yet to come to the conclusions you came up with. No biggie really. Hopefully we are all still learning. If you happen to know everything, let me know and I will pay to have you teach me a thing or two because I sure don't (sorry to those who may have thought otherwise). I have no idea who you spoke to at these companies so I can't tell you if what you heard was right or not and I don't know if they all attended the convention you spoke of, but I know from my conversations with Tilton that carbon/carbon seems much better for road racing than drag racing and that is exactly what Tilton designed their c/c units for.

Our experience with carbon also doesn't seem to agree with your assessment.
From our own testing on a 9 second Camaro we were able to hold over 600hp with a 240mm single disc carbon on carbon with only 2200lbs of clamp load, hot or cold. In other words the clutch tested about the same clamp load and size and number of discs as the stock EVO, except we were using carbon on carbon and was holding over 600hp. In that particular case the carbon was very aggressive so the coefficient of friction was very high. And the rapid wear that you spoke of wasn't there either. Before using 2200lbs we tried 1650lbs and it slipped like mad. After a couple aborted passes, we heated it up real good and went for broke and the clutch still slipped all the way down the track and of course this cooked the clutch. This would normally destroy a clutch but to our amazement when we took it apart the materials were fine and only worn a few thousanths of an inch. The material definitely gets grabbier hot of course. We verified this during various dyno tests, etc.

If the right carbon material is selected, some of carbon's best traits are that it is light, relatively strong, won't warp, and heat capacity is tremendous. The worst traits are that the coefficient of friction is inconsistent and the cost is insanely high. I don't consider the heat up to be a requirement in most cases as you suggest, with the right material and clamp load. My personal experience is with carbon on carbon so I am not sure about carbon on steel clutches.

IMO the problem that some are finding is that while the carbon performs very good, on carbon on steel designs it out-performs the steel that it is running against. They will probably perform well until you exceed the heat capacity of the steel and the steel warps and tries to transfer material, etc. You are not able to take full advantage of the carbon for it's heat capacity, and also for it's light weight (using steel floaters). This of course is not true with the Tilton which runs carbon against carbon.

Keep in mind that a twin disc carbon/carbon takes five layers of expensive carbon vesus the two layers required for a carbon on steel twin disc. The benefits of carbon against steel is of course cost savings. The other tradeoff that I mentioned is the inconsistent friction. What I mean by that is that you can't really consider it a viable material for a drag racing slipper clutch. In that case you are looking for a material that has a consistent coefficient of friction no matter what (hot or cold for instance), ideally. Being able to tune the static and centrifigal loads to get the perfect amount of slip is not possible if the friction is not consistent. To take that reasoning to an extreme, top fuel and funny car teams buy a production run of about 1000 discs just so they can get the same characteristics on all the part they are expecting to run during the season.

I hope that makes sense to you. I would be glad to share more via email if you are interested. Once again, my humble apologies for coming off like an a$$.

 

the floater is on the way thanks to Max@Mynes Perf. Anybody have any tips on the install? Id like to minimize the deacceration chatter if at all possible..

 

hey bro, you'll likely get the replacement 'intermediate plate' tomorrow. I'm sure you know this already but here are some install note. Click on the one for the Evo and the pdf will come up.

http://carbonetic.net/tech/index.html

If you have any questions or concerns, i would suggest that you call Carbonetic directly. Yasu is quite technical and he might be of assistance.

cheers.
mike @ mynes

 

Wow Kelly, that clutch was messed up. I'll be needing one soon.

 

i just had one installed on friday so far im breaking it in....i really hope this clutch is not that fragile.....the clutch itself before the install was beautiful ( compared to the clutchmaster stage 4).

 

I went to the Carbonetics page and read their warranty, or lack thereof. It concerns me that they say there is NO warranty once it is installed. I can't quite understand what their trying to say, but here's a direct quote,
"Once our CARBONETIC Products are installed or used in anyway, there will not be any warranty. If the installation is impossible due to defective or broken parts, the proper parts will be supplied by ACROSS ."
I guess they will replace any broken and/or defective parts? Is it me, or is their grammer throwing me off? If I'm going to pay top dollar for a "top of the line" clutch, someone better be willing to stand behind it, otherwise, why not go with something @ half the cost? Anyone have any answers? I'm supposed to be getting this clutch this week.

 

I have a twin carbonetics and all I have done pretty much is street driving although spirited but that's it. Everything is perfect so far. Not too grabby I can back it into a garage up a hill. When I get on it or launch the instructions say's to heat it up first by letting the clutch out a little with the e brake on several times. I never have, and have launched with minimal or no slipping. so far thrilled w/ it except for the decel chatter.

 

What minor mods need to be done during install (converting from pull to push)??Also does it fit the 6spd tranny the same?

 

the mod required are to remove the stock throw out bearing and use a toyota bearing with mating peice that holds it to the clutch fork which is reversed. from there, the slave cylinder is flipped over, and the lines going to it with the bleeder are swapped. last, there is a bracket that connects the slave cylinder to the clutch fork which converts it from a pull to a push type clutch(although the slave cylinder really pulls now instead of pushing on the clutch fork).

 

So all those things listed are included or I need to get a toyota tob? And which toyota part?