Lots of folks are already using various electronic fuel delivery upgrades. I'd like to hear how the following rate for use in the EVO VIII... Please lets keep the thread as it relates to the EVO VIII only, that's my car and that's what I'll be choosing it for.

1. HKS Super AFR
2. Apexi SAFC
3. Apexi SAFC-II
4. any other equivalent type not mentoned above

The 3 that I mention are all within $50 of each other, maybe less if bought used. I want to purchase one of them for my car. I'd also would like to know if those of you who are using them, might want to share your particular settings with the rest of the modifications you are using. It would be a good first start for those of us who have not done it yet.

Also, I'd like to hear about experiences with some EBCs

1. Blitz SBc-id
2. GReddy Profec B
3. GReddy Profec B spec

The Blitz is about twice the price of the Greddy, but I've heard good things about it. I'd lean towards the GReddy because I've read good reviews of it. I'd like to hear what the EVO 8 owners who have used them have to say....


Thanks,

Manuel

 

Well, most of these devices essentially work very similar, so overall your comparing processor speed, and "Lossy" data interpretation (The engine runs a little richer or leaner when the curves are set to zero due to the extra electronics)

I haven't had alot of experience with most of the others except the S-AFC (my observations should apply to the S-AFC II, however I think it has a bit quicker CPU and a few more bells and whistles)

AT part throttle, with low throttle trims with no compensation, the engine seens to run a little richer than stock, at WOT with the adjustments, it definitely compensates pretty well.. From a seat of the pants feel, with no other modifications other than the AFC and a Buschur Open air filter (No MBC, No Exhaust mods yet) there doesnt seem to be a huge difference. It feels a little stronger, but the extra boost (19+ psi through redline) would probably make more of a difference.

All in all, its a great supporting mod, but if you want a set-it and forget it, I'd go with a Reflash.. As soon as I get access to a replacement ECU that is tunable, I am going to remove the S-AFC and dyno tune the car the right way.

I think you should make your purchase decision on an AFC based on features that your looking for.. **MOST** have a decel compensation that will lean out the mixture to compensate for a VTA (Vent to atmosphere) Blowoff Valve, However I don't recommend a VTA, a Recirc is a better choice, and you can still hear it with an open element filter. I like the Apexi for sheer eye candy.. Its just large enough to see its display and 4 lines of data, but its really mostly for show. HKS's AFR (The older model) is small and easy to hide.

So far the common consensus is to use a Manual boost controller, its inexpensive and our cars seem to be forgiving of variations in boost as long as your not tweaking the hell out of it.

Ultimately, something like a Works Reflash (for a set it and forget it), Xede (Piggyback, basically a really high quality AFC type device, with control over many more parameters and eventually boost control), or a replacement ECU (Ralliart for a fixed tune, or a programmable ECU like the AEM EMS, Autronic, etc..) may be the ultimate choice.. I see the AFC or AFR products as being more of a crutch to fix something that can be better fixed in the future when more robust products are available.

Same with boost control..

Also, nothing quite like having an entirely stealthy installation without any obvious addons to **** off the dealer, or tweak a potential rival..

 

Thanks, this is what I wanted to see... Did you get your SAFC with the dealer's supplied settings?.... Who'd you get your from?

Quote:

All in all, its a great supporting mod, but if you want a set-it and forget it, I'd go with a Reflash.. As soon as I get access to a replacement ECU that is tunable, I am going to remove the S-AFC and dyno tune the car the right way.

I think you should make your purchase decision on an AFC based on features that your looking for.. **MOST** have a decel compensation that will lean out the mixture to compensate for a VTA (Vent to atmosphere) Blowoff Valve, However I don't recommend a VTA, a Recirc is a better choice, and you can still hear it with an open element filter. I like the Apexi for sheer eye candy.. Its just large enough to see its display and 4 lines of data, but its really mostly for show. HKS's AFR (The older model) is small and easy to hide.

I'm basically looking for a way to lean out the "too fat" areas of the ECU's fuel map and to make sure I'm running rich enough with the MBC.....

Quote:

So far the common consensus is to use a Manual boost controller, its inexpensive and our cars seem to be forgiving of variations in boost as long as your not tweaking the hell out of it.

I agree, that's what I used before in the WRX.

Quote:

Ultimately, something like a Works Reflash (for a set it and forget it), Xede (Piggyback, basically a really high quality AFC type device, with control over many more parameters and eventually boost control), or a replacement ECU (Ralliart for a fixed tune, or a programmable ECU like the AEM EMS, Autronic, etc..) may be the ultimate choice.. I see the AFC or AFR products as being more of a crutch to fix something that can be better fixed in the future when more robust products are available..

I'm drawn to that solution to because it sounds good in theory, but I must say that the Unichip (pre-mapped piggy-back) was a disappointing POS. This is why I'm waiting a good long time before I purchase something like the XEDE or a reflash of some kind. The proven and reliable things such as the Ralliart ECU's or top flight stand-alone ECUs are either unavailable or too expensive/complicaed to tune for me..

Quote:

Same with boost control..

Also, nothing quite like having an entirely stealthy installation without any obvious addons to **** off the dealer, or tweak a potential rival..

I totally agree with you on that. I guess that's what most of us really want... There is nothing wrong with modifying a car for show, in which case you'd want all your stuff shiny, chrome plated and in full view, but I'd rather keep it hidden and discreet.

 

I got my Apexi S-AFC through MACHV Racing, They are a reseller of the Buschur AFC Package.. I'm inclined to stick with mostly Buschur products.. Bang for the buck definitely attracted me to their products. I am also planning (aside from the exhaust) the HKS cams, Extrudehone the intake, oversized throttle body, Stainless Exhaust header (Ceramic coated), Ported turbo, port matching, Larger FMIC and Turbo pipes. I don't intend to go into the bottom end, but a better clutch would be another thing..

 

The Unichip, which is a piggyback controller like the XEDE, has nothing to do with reflashing the factory ECU. In fact, it is the shortcomings of piggybacks like the Unichip that showcase why WORKS believes that a direct reflash is a cleaner, and ultimately, the optimal way, to tune the EVO's factory ECU.

-- DavidV

 

Yeah, sure and all that, but where is the WORKS product? I've not seen or heard anything about it other that some vague promises. It's like waiting for the next Windows Operating system.... Vapor ware

 

Like a fine wine, we won't release an ECU before its time.

Seriously folks, if only people realized how time intensive (not to mention expensive) it has been for us to develop the EVO reflash program, I have a feeling people would be a little more understanding of why it takes more time to bring a reflash to market than a pre-mapped piggyback. That said, those who have been waiting for numbers and those who have pre-ordered will be in for good news very soon.

-- DavidV

 

Dave, are you using Mitsubishi's tool for your remapping? Or a third party product? PM Me with the info if you'd prefer.

 

Geez, you gotta know it's very frustrating to keep reading little bits of tease and no other substantive info. I guess the question is why start all the hype if the product is not scheduled to be released?
I'm not out here to bash WORKS or anything like that, but you must admit that all the hints and talk without any firm or even approximate dates can lead one to believe there's not really a product out there?
Also, at least outline how these reflashes are going to be handled. Will you require the ECU from the car to be sent somewhere and returned after re-flashing? Or perhaps there will be some kind of core charge and we'll get re-flashed ECUs after paying a refundable deposit? What happens if any issues arise, will we get a new ECU and we send one back in exchange?
Anyway, I guess there are a lot of unanswered questions and I'd like to hear some plausible answers. Mind you, I'm all for a reflashed ECU, it would be the best solution to maintain the car in a condition very close to stock. It also does away with the whole issue of piggy backs that need hacking into the wiring, do not work correctly with the cars sensors, etc.
Sounds very nice, but where's the beef??

 

frankly kinda tired of reading the same old gloating myself. put up or shut up.

 

OK, here are the Cliff Notes from the WORKS forum:


Next week.

Local customers can have them flashed in the car. Everyone else has to send them in by appointment. We reflash them and turn them around in 24 hours. ECUs are coded to the car, so we need the actual ECU and can't do a core exchange.

We will put it back to stock if you are not 100% satisfied and offer a refund. All ECUs sent to us by mail must be shipped using FedEx or UPS tracked service and insured for full replacement value. If and ECU is lost en route, the dealership will be able to recode a new one.

-- DavidV

 

Frankly, we have to test the ECU in extreme conditions before we release it to paying buyers.

Is it so wrong to gloat when we come in first place (SFR Rallycross) during our R&D testing?

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-- DavidV

 

Has anyone here been able to get the decel feature working on the SAFCII? If so can you post your settings or talk about how to set it up. I tryed and I had no luck but the instructions aren't very detailed.

 

In my opinion, if you absolutely HAVE to have fuel tuning right now, you should go with a S-AFC II. If you can wait, get a UTEC once they are out. You could go with an HKS, but it's probably a bit more expensive and less common (therefore less people have experience using it). The XEDE is just a piggyback and therefore can't really do anything you can't do with other parts for a lot cheaper. S-AFC II and an mbc will get you there faster than a XEDE.

The thing you have to remember with the APEXi is that, like all piggybacks, you're modifying the airflow signal to fool the ecu. This means that the ecu is placed on a lower fuel map and a higher timing map. You also really need a wbo2 sensor to accurately tune, but the fact that the II has a knock feature will help out a lot. You can get around the extra timing issue by just keeping an eye out for knock and tuning a bit conservatively.

The other option is to get a reflash, which I personally don't like, but I like to tune my own car a lot. For someone who just wants their car tuned well and isn't likely to be reflashing often, then it would seem like a good choice. If it were me, I'd just wait for the UTEC.

 

Greddy e-manage allows you to adjust timing

Mitsu made the car run so rich that they had to advance timing in ored to get any performance out of the thing

so when you lean it out, you should pull some timing