K&N Cone Filter?
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Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Des Plaines
Re: K&N Cone Filter?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Evo11V
my friend installed a cone filter in his evo last week,
its definatelly louder, but not faster. Personally I dont think they improve performance. Those are open air filters inside the engine bay, so much heat gets to them that they probably decrease performance.
I dont know I could be wrong, but then how come ralliart and hks make carbon fiber air boxes and regular high flow replacement filters?
Somebody please explain this whole K&N thing.
my friend installed a cone filter in his evo last week,
its definatelly louder, but not faster. Personally I dont think they improve performance. Those are open air filters inside the engine bay, so much heat gets to them that they probably decrease performance.
I dont know I could be wrong, but then how come ralliart and hks make carbon fiber air boxes and regular high flow replacement filters?
Somebody please explain this whole K&N thing.
Good question. I was leaning toward a stock drop in filter from K&N or Ralliart. I've always heard the drop in's get cleaner cooler air as opposed to the cone. I also wonder how Mitsubishi will view the cone filter with a warranty claim.
Anyone tried both?
Anyone tried both?
Evolved Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 908
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From: Sarasota
Re: Re: K&N Cone Filter?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by petem
HKS does not make a drop-in filter solution; however, RalliArt, K&N, and Monster Sport do. HKS makes a racing suction kit that utilizes an open air filter. As far as Carbon Fiber air boxes ... I have seen one from Monster Sport ... but never from RalliArt or HKS. I will not attempt to answer your question as to which works better since I do not know myself .... but I chose to go with a RalliArt drop-in until someone proves that an open filter improves induction volume as well as hp/tq.
Originally posted by Evo11V
but then how come ralliart and hks make carbon fiber air boxes and regular high flow replacement filters?
but then how come ralliart and hks make carbon fiber air boxes and regular high flow replacement filters?
I agree evo1. I've always had great luck with K&N drop-ins and until I see better this just seems to be the easiest, safest, quiet-est and most warranty-friendly option.
If someone shows me a cone filter is better and I can do a cone filter easily then I'd be interested.
If someone shows me a cone filter is better and I can do a cone filter easily then I'd be interested.
Originally posted by StreetPowerEvo
OK, as requested here are the pictures of the Buschur filter.
As you can see, the MAS adapter is actually attached as the bottom of the filter, unlike the RMR where it is two pieces. Both are approx the same size filter. I did not find any markings indicating filter make or manufacturer however.
OK, as requested here are the pictures of the Buschur filter.
As you can see, the MAS adapter is actually attached as the bottom of the filter, unlike the RMR where it is two pieces. Both are approx the same size filter. I did not find any markings indicating filter make or manufacturer however.
Who makes a CAI kit that has some sort of bell and a large filter that is K&N brand? The bigger the better on the filter.
Evolved Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 908
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From: Sarasota
Originally posted by chronohunter
Who makes a CAI kit that has some sort of bell and a large filter that is K&N brand? The bigger the better on the filter.
Who makes a CAI kit that has some sort of bell and a large filter that is K&N brand? The bigger the better on the filter.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by chronohunter
[B]
No wonder people report that the power and response are not as good as stock. Look at the transition between the filter and entering the MAS, that is as bad as it could be made. The abrubt 90degree turn will create turbulence that will REDUCE the amount of air entering into the engine (at certain RPM's). It needs a bell of some sort to insure smooth aiflow through the MAS, the turbulent air can also cause the MAS to misread
On the contrary, I do have the Buschur filter kit on my EVO. The throttle response did increase immediately.. David Buschur advises of a 4hp increase, but that is something that you can barely feel at all.. The butt dyno did notice a slight difference.. Maybe that was just me in the hype, but there is a difference, good not bad... My .02....
[B]
No wonder people report that the power and response are not as good as stock. Look at the transition between the filter and entering the MAS, that is as bad as it could be made. The abrubt 90degree turn will create turbulence that will REDUCE the amount of air entering into the engine (at certain RPM's). It needs a bell of some sort to insure smooth aiflow through the MAS, the turbulent air can also cause the MAS to misread
On the contrary, I do have the Buschur filter kit on my EVO. The throttle response did increase immediately.. David Buschur advises of a 4hp increase, but that is something that you can barely feel at all.. The butt dyno did notice a slight difference.. Maybe that was just me in the hype, but there is a difference, good not bad... My .02....
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,536
Likes: 31
From: Tewksbury, NJ
Now that you say it the Evo's engine does put out a lot of heat. WIth a cone filter this could be a problem, like stated before decreasing performance instead of increasing. We really need a dyno chart 
that can possiably solve this possiable problem. Another answer could be a cold air intake with the cone filter, cant go wrong there. Also in relation to the shot ram cone intakes although it does intake more heat... correct me if i'm wrong but doesnt that big *** intercooler cool the air anyway? Also the engine has a huge amount of air flow and allows great heat extraction. Still there is a possiable problem there.
Does anyone have a dyno chart with a stock airbox compared to a cone intake, and even better the stock airbox compared to a cone intake and a cold airintake. We really need someone with expert knowlege to take this somewhere
that can possiably solve this possiable problem. Another answer could be a cold air intake with the cone filter, cant go wrong there. Also in relation to the shot ram cone intakes although it does intake more heat... correct me if i'm wrong but doesnt that big *** intercooler cool the air anyway? Also the engine has a huge amount of air flow and allows great heat extraction. Still there is a possiable problem there. Does anyone have a dyno chart with a stock airbox compared to a cone intake, and even better the stock airbox compared to a cone intake and a cold airintake. We really need someone with expert knowlege to take this somewhere
K&N FIPK Compatable Kits
57-1500-1 3000GT
57-5504-1 2G Eclipse GSX
All mitsu MAF adapter kits fit each other. The filters are shaped in a way that K&N *believes* help get better readings and performance based on the nature of Karman Vortex MAF sensors. They're just an adapter with an oval cone. There's no intake pipe replacement. there is a funnel shape to the adapter so intake airflow is smooth. the difference between the two models is that the eclipse one has a bolt on it's end for mounting purposes while the 3000GT has 2 separate brackets for mounting. Also the 3000GT is about $180 while the Eclipse one is around $120.
57-1500-1 3000GT
57-5504-1 2G Eclipse GSX
All mitsu MAF adapter kits fit each other. The filters are shaped in a way that K&N *believes* help get better readings and performance based on the nature of Karman Vortex MAF sensors. They're just an adapter with an oval cone. There's no intake pipe replacement. there is a funnel shape to the adapter so intake airflow is smooth. the difference between the two models is that the eclipse one has a bolt on it's end for mounting purposes while the 3000GT has 2 separate brackets for mounting. Also the 3000GT is about $180 while the Eclipse one is around $120.
Originally posted by Evo11V
Now that you say it the Evo's engine does put out a lot of heat. WIth a cone filter this could be a problem,
Now that you say it the Evo's engine does put out a lot of heat. WIth a cone filter this could be a problem,
But lets be honest 80% of evo;s already have cone filters. Mod cheap, mod twice.
Last edited by maki; Jun 13, 2003 at 12:39 PM.
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Very interesting debate 
A cone type filter sitting in the engine bay cannot be as "cold" as a filter sitting in a sealed box, since it is not isolated and has metal parts in it. This is very simple physics. This is particularly true when the car is standing or moving slowly. At speed, my guess would be that the effect of the filter being in the open engine bay is negligeable. If you would like to find out for sure, plug in a temperature sensor and see for yourself
The intercooler does indeed cool the air, but that's the air that goes into the intake manifold that we're talking about. The air from the air intake (filter) goes directly into the turbo's compressor. Warmer air contains less oxygen, so that's less good.
To see whether or not your cone type air filter is an improvement or not, you have to measure the charge air temperature (temp of the air that comes out of the I/C and goes into the intake manifold) with the stock (or panel) filter and then with the cone type filter.
Another thing to keep in mind is the permeability of the filter you will put in there. It may increase flow, but how much dust particles will it let through? With my Blitz metal mesh cone filter, the compressor wheel got dirty after a few thousand miles.
Until someone confirms with measurements of temperatures etc. that a cone type filter is better, I would suggest just dropping in a panel filter. Be sure that there isnt too much oil on the panel / cone. All you want is clean and fresh air in there. I heard oil deposits can screw up the MAS. While I believe that to be true for hotwire type MASs, I would suppose that it's less of an issue for Karman type MASs, but not ideal nevertheless.
As long as you are not going over 320 - 330 flywheel bhp approximately, the air filter isnt the biggest issue anyway. Get rid of that exhaust!
A cone type filter sitting in the engine bay cannot be as "cold" as a filter sitting in a sealed box, since it is not isolated and has metal parts in it. This is very simple physics.
This is particularly true when the car is standing or moving slowly. At speed, my guess would be that the effect of the filter being in the open engine bay is negligeable. If you would like to find out for sure, plug in a temperature sensor and see for yourself The intercooler does indeed cool the air, but that's the air that goes into the intake manifold that we're talking about. The air from the air intake (filter) goes directly into the turbo's compressor. Warmer air contains less oxygen, so that's less good.
To see whether or not your cone type air filter is an improvement or not, you have to measure the charge air temperature (temp of the air that comes out of the I/C and goes into the intake manifold) with the stock (or panel) filter and then with the cone type filter.
Another thing to keep in mind is the permeability of the filter you will put in there. It may increase flow, but how much dust particles will it let through? With my Blitz metal mesh cone filter, the compressor wheel got dirty after a few thousand miles.
Until someone confirms with measurements of temperatures etc. that a cone type filter is better, I would suggest just dropping in a panel filter. Be sure that there isnt too much oil on the panel / cone. All you want is clean and fresh air in there. I heard oil deposits can screw up the MAS. While I believe that to be true for hotwire type MASs, I would suppose that it's less of an issue for Karman type MASs, but not ideal nevertheless.
As long as you are not going over 320 - 330 flywheel bhp approximately, the air filter isnt the biggest issue anyway. Get rid of that exhaust!
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My opinion is this: get a panel filter, KN or Ralliart etc in the stock box and worry about a better more advanced air intake (big carbon fiber box anybody? ) once you run a lot of boost with a standalone ECU etc. At least, the air will be clean and the turbo wont need any work done on it. And you wont be slower than the next guy with a cone filter.
If you want to know which is best and what the effects at various speeds etc. are, measure.
Dont spend hundreds of bucks on a n air intake system that may or may not work better than a simple panel filter when your car is running a stock map and 19 PSI boost.
) once you run a lot of boost with a standalone ECU etc. At least, the air will be clean and the turbo wont need any work done on it. And you wont be slower than the next guy with a cone filter.If you want to know which is best and what the effects at various speeds etc. are, measure.
Dont spend hundreds of bucks on a n air intake system that may or may not work better than a simple panel filter when your car is running a stock map and 19 PSI boost.