SHOP CT:Evo Green numbers are in...
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 425
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From: NJ
Very often building a optimal race car requires a bit of testing and trial and error. As in my car I have been through about 4 sets of cams and 9 different turbos.
Both cam shafts and turbo size muct be matched to the RPM power band that the car is running in and sometimes it takes a bit of experimentation to find the perfect balance. While you may have found a workable solution with smaller cams it remains my opinion that a tubular manifold and a different turbo would be a better match for the kind of racing you are doing. As long as you are happy that is all that counts.
As for the tune, I am not trying to question anyone's tuning ability - BUT I am reminding you that David Buschur was the one who tuned your car - did so on no notice dropping what else he was doing and doing so at no charge. When you have someone else come along and trim the fuel maps and make some tuning adjustments it seems easy to forget the help you had in the past. I am sure that who ever was touched your car did not simply delete and erase that wonderful map created by Mr. Buschur but rather they adjust it to match the new set up.
I recall how amazing the tune by Mr. Buschur ran both on the road, dyno and track. I was very impressed as always by his master skill. And the results you obtained on the track were consistant with my observations on the dyno.
Finally, since I did not tune your car I dont think its fair for your to make a comment about "not getting into my tuning skills" - particularly after I helped you out with my spare race motor and still have not recieved all the parts back for the core that I need to replace the motor I gave you.
Thanks and best of luck with the race car
Al
Both cam shafts and turbo size muct be matched to the RPM power band that the car is running in and sometimes it takes a bit of experimentation to find the perfect balance. While you may have found a workable solution with smaller cams it remains my opinion that a tubular manifold and a different turbo would be a better match for the kind of racing you are doing. As long as you are happy that is all that counts.
As for the tune, I am not trying to question anyone's tuning ability - BUT I am reminding you that David Buschur was the one who tuned your car - did so on no notice dropping what else he was doing and doing so at no charge. When you have someone else come along and trim the fuel maps and make some tuning adjustments it seems easy to forget the help you had in the past. I am sure that who ever was touched your car did not simply delete and erase that wonderful map created by Mr. Buschur but rather they adjust it to match the new set up.
I recall how amazing the tune by Mr. Buschur ran both on the road, dyno and track. I was very impressed as always by his master skill. And the results you obtained on the track were consistant with my observations on the dyno.
Finally, since I did not tune your car I dont think its fair for your to make a comment about "not getting into my tuning skills" - particularly after I helped you out with my spare race motor and still have not recieved all the parts back for the core that I need to replace the motor I gave you.
Thanks and best of luck with the race car
Al
I concur , there is alot of R&D that goes into both the combination and or the tune , i want to thank Kyle for his patiennce and is loyalty with me and my staff here at The Shop , Master Buschur for his parts combo and his help or map with the AEM , and last but not least BIG AL ! for allowing us to use his back up race motor so that we could get Kyle on the road and to the track on time - Team Work its what it all about - Jimmy
Last edited by DynoFlash; Aug 23, 2007 at 09:29 AM.
This Is Jimmy
I concur , there is alot of R&D that goes into both the combination and or the tune , i want to thank Kyle for his patiennce and is loyalty with me and my staff here at The Shop , Master Buschur for his parts combo and his help or map with the AEM , and last but not least BIG AL ! for allowing us to use his back up race motor so that we could get Kyle on the road and to the track on time - Team Work its what it all about - Jimmy
Hmmmmm, as this thread is unfolding I am actually remembering what happened the night the car "had to be finished for a big race". Regardless of who tuned it now or did some fuel and timing trimming, I do remember being on the phone with Al and Jimmy and Jimmy telling me how great the car was and how he couldn't believe it after I made adjustments via e-mail. Jimmy and I do have a good working relationship, as I said earlier.
This thread has put an end to any e-mail help tuning any car ever in the future.......yet another BS slap in the face, it will be the last though.
As for the BF272 cams.........you have a very interesting idea there, so they are DRAG CAMS ONLY? Wow, that's very interesting. Tell you what, let's meet up at a track with our Time Attack car that has the BF272's in it and we'll see who car is faster. I know, that's probably not a fair comparison.....I have a few other cars I can use too, maybe my daily driver would be OK? If your car didn't hit boost until as late as you say it did with the BF272's then I can gaurantee you there was a problem and it wasn't the cam. They were in wrong in the first place might be the problem, a boost leak that got fixed while the rest was apart is another reason but the cams WILL NOT MAKE A 3065 COME IN THAT LATE, forget it, it ain't happening.
Jarrod's car hit 20 psi at 4500, he had the cams and a 3065, I can post plots of those cams with 3065 and 35r's if need be for proof.
I just had the BF272's in an EVO green as a matter of fact, boost was uneffected and the car made 410 whp and 410 torque on our dyno.........
This thread has put an end to any e-mail help tuning any car ever in the future.......yet another BS slap in the face, it will be the last though.
As for the BF272 cams.........you have a very interesting idea there, so they are DRAG CAMS ONLY? Wow, that's very interesting. Tell you what, let's meet up at a track with our Time Attack car that has the BF272's in it and we'll see who car is faster. I know, that's probably not a fair comparison.....I have a few other cars I can use too, maybe my daily driver would be OK? If your car didn't hit boost until as late as you say it did with the BF272's then I can gaurantee you there was a problem and it wasn't the cam. They were in wrong in the first place might be the problem, a boost leak that got fixed while the rest was apart is another reason but the cams WILL NOT MAKE A 3065 COME IN THAT LATE, forget it, it ain't happening.
Jarrod's car hit 20 psi at 4500, he had the cams and a 3065, I can post plots of those cams with 3065 and 35r's if need be for proof.
I just had the BF272's in an EVO green as a matter of fact, boost was uneffected and the car made 410 whp and 410 torque on our dyno.........
Hmmmmm, as this thread is unfolding I am actually remembering what happened the night the car "had to be finished for a big race". Regardless of who tuned it now or did some fuel and timing trimming, I do remember being on the phone with Al and Jimmy and Jimmy telling me how great the car was and how he couldn't believe it after I made adjustments via e-mail. Jimmy and I do have a good working relationship, as I said earlier.
This thread has put an end to any e-mail help tuning any car ever in the future.......yet another BS slap in the face, it will be the last though.
As for the BF272 cams.........you have a very interesting idea there, so they are DRAG CAMS ONLY? Wow, that's very interesting. Tell you what, let's meet up at a track with our Time Attack car that has the BF272's in it and we'll see who car is faster. I know, that's probably not a fair comparison.....I have a few other cars I can use too, maybe my daily driver would be OK? If your car didn't hit boost until as late as you say it did with the BF272's then I can gaurantee you there was a problem and it wasn't the cam. They were in wrong in the first place might be the problem, a boost leak that got fixed while the rest was apart is another reason but the cams WILL NOT MAKE A 3065 COME IN THAT LATE, forget it, it ain't happening.
Jarrod's car hit 20 psi at 4500, he had the cams and a 3065, I can post plots of those cams with 3065 and 35r's if need be for proof.
I just had the BF272's in an EVO green as a matter of fact, boost was uneffected and the car made 410 whp and 410 torque on our dyno.........
This thread has put an end to any e-mail help tuning any car ever in the future.......yet another BS slap in the face, it will be the last though.
As for the BF272 cams.........you have a very interesting idea there, so they are DRAG CAMS ONLY? Wow, that's very interesting. Tell you what, let's meet up at a track with our Time Attack car that has the BF272's in it and we'll see who car is faster. I know, that's probably not a fair comparison.....I have a few other cars I can use too, maybe my daily driver would be OK? If your car didn't hit boost until as late as you say it did with the BF272's then I can gaurantee you there was a problem and it wasn't the cam. They were in wrong in the first place might be the problem, a boost leak that got fixed while the rest was apart is another reason but the cams WILL NOT MAKE A 3065 COME IN THAT LATE, forget it, it ain't happening.
Jarrod's car hit 20 psi at 4500, he had the cams and a 3065, I can post plots of those cams with 3065 and 35r's if need be for proof.
I just had the BF272's in an EVO green as a matter of fact, boost was uneffected and the car made 410 whp and 410 torque on our dyno.........
Regardless, David, when does Jarrod's car hit 30psi?
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Hmmmmm, as this thread is unfolding I am actually remembering what happened the night the car "had to be finished for a big race". Regardless of who tuned it now or did some fuel and timing trimming, I do remember being on the phone with Al and Jimmy and Jimmy telling me how great the car was and how he couldn't believe it after I made adjustments via e-mail. Jimmy and I do have a good working relationship, as I said earlier.
This thread has put an end to any e-mail help tuning any car ever in the future.......yet another BS slap in the face, it will be the last though.
As for the BF272 cams.........you have a very interesting idea there, so they are DRAG CAMS ONLY? Wow, that's very interesting. Tell you what, let's meet up at a track with our Time Attack car that has the BF272's in it and we'll see who car is faster. I know, that's probably not a fair comparison.....I have a few other cars I can use too, maybe my daily driver would be OK? If your car didn't hit boost until as late as you say it did with the BF272's then I can gaurantee you there was a problem and it wasn't the cam. They were in wrong in the first place might be the problem, a boost leak that got fixed while the rest was apart is another reason but the cams WILL NOT MAKE A 3065 COME IN THAT LATE, forget it, it ain't happening.
Jarrod's car hit 20 psi at 4500, he had the cams and a 3065, I can post plots of those cams with 3065 and 35r's if need be for proof.
I just had the BF272's in an EVO green as a matter of fact, boost was uneffected and the car made 410 whp and 410 torque on our dyno.........
This thread has put an end to any e-mail help tuning any car ever in the future.......yet another BS slap in the face, it will be the last though.
As for the BF272 cams.........you have a very interesting idea there, so they are DRAG CAMS ONLY? Wow, that's very interesting. Tell you what, let's meet up at a track with our Time Attack car that has the BF272's in it and we'll see who car is faster. I know, that's probably not a fair comparison.....I have a few other cars I can use too, maybe my daily driver would be OK? If your car didn't hit boost until as late as you say it did with the BF272's then I can gaurantee you there was a problem and it wasn't the cam. They were in wrong in the first place might be the problem, a boost leak that got fixed while the rest was apart is another reason but the cams WILL NOT MAKE A 3065 COME IN THAT LATE, forget it, it ain't happening.
Jarrod's car hit 20 psi at 4500, he had the cams and a 3065, I can post plots of those cams with 3065 and 35r's if need be for proof.
I just had the BF272's in an EVO green as a matter of fact, boost was uneffected and the car made 410 whp and 410 torque on our dyno.........
Holy Crap.
David please don't take this the wrong way, from what I've seen you make some of the best EVO stuff.. Especially those motors you build !
Do you take after AL (you know, DYNOFLASH), or does AL take after you ??!!
But right now that doesn't change the fact that ur talking a lot of ****.
Just because a car makes more power doesn't mean it'll be faster on the track..
You'll find this out for yourself if your ever go to a event with kingkyle....
Hmmmmm, as this thread is unfolding I am actually remembering what happened the night the car "had to be finished for a big race". Regardless of who tuned it now or did some fuel and timing trimming, I do remember being on the phone with Al and Jimmy and Jimmy telling me how great the car was and how he couldn't believe it after I made adjustments via e-mail. Jimmy and I do have a good working relationship, as I said earlier.
This thread has put an end to any e-mail help tuning any car ever in the future.......yet another BS slap in the face, it will be the last though.
As for the BF272 cams.........you have a very interesting idea there, so they are DRAG CAMS ONLY? Wow, that's very interesting. Tell you what, let's meet up at a track with our Time Attack car that has the BF272's in it and we'll see who car is faster. I know, that's probably not a fair comparison.....I have a few other cars I can use too, maybe my daily driver would be OK? If your car didn't hit boost until as late as you say it did with the BF272's then I can gaurantee you there was a problem and it wasn't the cam. They were in wrong in the first place might be the problem, a boost leak that got fixed while the rest was apart is another reason but the cams WILL NOT MAKE A 3065 COME IN THAT LATE, forget it, it ain't happening.
Jarrod's car hit 20 psi at 4500, he had the cams and a 3065, I can post plots of those cams with 3065 and 35r's if need be for proof.
I just had the BF272's in an EVO green as a matter of fact, boost was uneffected and the car made 410 whp and 410 torque on our dyno.........
This thread has put an end to any e-mail help tuning any car ever in the future.......yet another BS slap in the face, it will be the last though.
As for the BF272 cams.........you have a very interesting idea there, so they are DRAG CAMS ONLY? Wow, that's very interesting. Tell you what, let's meet up at a track with our Time Attack car that has the BF272's in it and we'll see who car is faster. I know, that's probably not a fair comparison.....I have a few other cars I can use too, maybe my daily driver would be OK? If your car didn't hit boost until as late as you say it did with the BF272's then I can gaurantee you there was a problem and it wasn't the cam. They were in wrong in the first place might be the problem, a boost leak that got fixed while the rest was apart is another reason but the cams WILL NOT MAKE A 3065 COME IN THAT LATE, forget it, it ain't happening.
Jarrod's car hit 20 psi at 4500, he had the cams and a 3065, I can post plots of those cams with 3065 and 35r's if need be for proof.
I just had the BF272's in an EVO green as a matter of fact, boost was uneffected and the car made 410 whp and 410 torque on our dyno.........
For someone who doenst like the idea of cloging peoples threads with bull**** you of all should know this would have been better said as a PM.
I said it on page 4 and i'll have to say it again here.
This is ELECTRICEVO's thread about the HP he made on HIS car. NOT Kyle's.
What correction factor are they using on their DynoDynamics? (Hit x while in the dyno screen) Those sure look like dynojet numbers.
Curve looks good though man. I'm guessing that would be a little over 350 on our dyno dynamics. Those are some good numbers.
Curve looks good though man. I'm guessing that would be a little over 350 on our dyno dynamics. Those are some good numbers.
We use the correction factor of 1.1 , when a customer wants to know what it would make on a Dynojet is when and only when we use the correction factor of 1.2 which is and has come with in 5 hp plus or minus everytime - Jimmy
We use 1.0 and tell folks to multiply by 1.15 for dynojet and 1.07 for mustange. I suspect in all reality (but have not verified) that since dynodynamics did the recalibration a while back that the local dynojets are more like 1.2 than 1.15. That would match up exactly with your observations.
So my VIII with green and 272's would make about 360 on your dyno at 23psi with my initial quick tune. Based on what you (JK) have observed that would be about 392 on a dynojet. I guess I need to hit up a couple of the local dynojets and see how their number look on the east coast
Nice numbers
, I bet it pulls like a biatch with the mivec torque.
Ahh,
We use 1.0 and tell folks to multiply by 1.15 for dynojet and 1.07 for mustange. I suspect in all reality (but have not verified) that since dynodynamics did the recalibration a while back that the local dynojets are more like 1.2 than 1.15. That would match up exactly with your observations.
So my VIII with green and 272's would make about 360 on your dyno at 23psi with my initial quick tune. Based on what you (JK) have observed that would be about 392 on a dynojet. I guess I need to hit up a couple of the local dynojets and see how their number look on the east coast
Nice numbers , I bet it pulls like a biatch with the mivec torque.
We use 1.0 and tell folks to multiply by 1.15 for dynojet and 1.07 for mustange. I suspect in all reality (but have not verified) that since dynodynamics did the recalibration a while back that the local dynojets are more like 1.2 than 1.15. That would match up exactly with your observations.
So my VIII with green and 272's would make about 360 on your dyno at 23psi with my initial quick tune. Based on what you (JK) have observed that would be about 392 on a dynojet. I guess I need to hit up a couple of the local dynojets and see how their number look on the east coast
Nice numbers
, I bet it pulls like a biatch with the mivec torque.I concur!
However, the dynojet figure you use is actually low! on an uncorrected Dyno Dynamics the difference is 20% so actually you should multiply your #s with 1.20...
Which is actually makes your car to show 392whp on a dynojet!!! Damn.... thats nice!!!
On my car all my dyno sessions were on 1.10cf and one time i was able to compare the #s with a Dynojet...
i got exactly 10% difference with a variation of 1hp between the two dyno runs which were made within 5 days difference, no more than 5 degrees temp difference and on the same gastank....
So, the actual difference between the particular Dyno dynamics if run completely uncorrected with a Dynojet is 20%...
I concur!
However, the dynojet figure you use is actually low! on an uncorrected Dyno Dynamics the difference is 20% so actually you should multiply your #s with 1.20...
Which is actually makes your car to show 392whp on a dynojet!!! Damn.... thats nice!!!
On my car all my dyno sessions were on 1.10cf and one time i was able to compare the #s with a Dynojet...
i got exactly 10% difference with a variation of 1hp between the two dyno runs which were made within 5 days difference, no more than 5 degrees temp difference and on the same gastank....
So, the actual difference between the particular Dyno dynamics if run completely uncorrected with a Dynojet is 20%...
However, the dynojet figure you use is actually low! on an uncorrected Dyno Dynamics the difference is 20% so actually you should multiply your #s with 1.20...
Which is actually makes your car to show 392whp on a dynojet!!! Damn.... thats nice!!!
On my car all my dyno sessions were on 1.10cf and one time i was able to compare the #s with a Dynojet...
i got exactly 10% difference with a variation of 1hp between the two dyno runs which were made within 5 days difference, no more than 5 degrees temp difference and on the same gastank....
So, the actual difference between the particular Dyno dynamics if run completely uncorrected with a Dynojet is 20%...
And one more time for the O.P.
Good numbers man, I gotta find a way to do a mivec swap so I can get that early spool.........