+/- of dual disc clutch vs. single disc?
Jul 6, 2003, 09:13 AM
#3
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twin disc is better for daily driving and the single has a more ON/OFF feel to it, better for track use...
prices, check Z1, but $1000 for single and $1500 for twin?
-Shahul X
prices, check Z1, but $1000 for single and $1500 for twin?
-Shahul X
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Jul 6, 2003, 03:55 PM
#8
A twin- or multi-plate clutch allows for more clutch surface with less clutch diameter and less spring pressure. So for a clutch that can hold a given amount of torque, a single plate will have heavier spring pressure which is not a great thing for a daily driver.
Persoanlly, on a fast GT car, or for road racing a multiplate clutch is great, even though they tend to be a bit of an in/out affair. That makes them difficult to launch, as slipping the clutch does not work with them. Personally, I wouldn't want a multiplate affair on a 4WD car like the Evo because of that.
Persoanlly, on a fast GT car, or for road racing a multiplate clutch is great, even though they tend to be a bit of an in/out affair. That makes them difficult to launch, as slipping the clutch does not work with them. Personally, I wouldn't want a multiplate affair on a 4WD car like the Evo because of that.
Jul 7, 2003, 12:09 PM
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Well, the twin disk has more friction area, so can handle more torque than the singel disk. Twin disk also tends to be easier to drive on the street than teh single, whcih can be a bit grabby (though it is easy to get used to).
Cusco, Power Enterprise and Exedy are all made by Exedy.
Ogura makes their own, as does HKS.
The Ogura is a great clutch to use as well (can only speak for the twin disk so far, as we recently used it in an RX7)...very easy pedal pressure, easy to drive smooth.
The HKS clutches are not the ideal choice for the street IMHO.....way to grabby, and don't like to do anything but be launched. But for strictly drag use, or for a car that only sees track days, its a good unit to use. The Exedy/PE/Cusco units are at home ina variety of circumstances
Cusco, Power Enterprise and Exedy are all made by Exedy.
Ogura makes their own, as does HKS.
The Ogura is a great clutch to use as well (can only speak for the twin disk so far, as we recently used it in an RX7)...very easy pedal pressure, easy to drive smooth.
The HKS clutches are not the ideal choice for the street IMHO.....way to grabby, and don't like to do anything but be launched. But for strictly drag use, or for a car that only sees track days, its a good unit to use. The Exedy/PE/Cusco units are at home ina variety of circumstances
Jul 8, 2003, 12:07 PM
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A dual disc clutch can have a nicer, more stock-like (less grabby) engagement than an aggressive single while still having good clamping power when fully engaged. At the end of the day though, you want some slip in the clutch of an AWD car to launch it well. If the tires won't spin and the clutch won't give, when you drop the clutch at high RPM either the motor is going to bog or you are going to break something. Of course, you can let it out somewhat gradually, but that's a recipe for a smoked short-lived clutch.
Jul 11, 2003, 10:46 AM
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"A twin- or multi-plate clutch allows for more clutch surface with less clutch diameter and less spring pressure."
" twin disc is better for daily driving and the single has a more ON/OFF feel to it, better for track use..."
Actually it is not surface "area" that increases the torque capacity, it is the number of surfaces. The formula for clutch torque capacity is T=PxFxNxR where T=torque capacity in ftlbs, P=pounds of clamping force, N=number of friction surfaces (two for single disc), and R=radius of gyration in feet (disc size). When you increase surface area without changing number of surfaces you are actually decreasing the pressure (psi) applied to the fricton surface proportionally. When you add a second disc, you literally double the torque capacity if all other factors are unchanged. There are difficulties and drawbacks to multi-plate clutch design as well.
A single is not necessarilly more on/off. The stock single disc isn't for instance. The on/off aspect of the clutch is a result of the coefficient of friction and the pressure acting on the friction surface and the proper use of a marcel between the linings. If you double the clamp load but use a stock disc, it will engage just like stock. Of course you will need to use both feet to push it in. If you use a stock pressure plate and use an aggressive disc, it will chatter and be more of an on/off switch. There are many design considerations to get the right balance to make the most people happy. I have countless customers who use our race clutches on their Hondas and claim they are totally streetable. I think they are crazy. Of course everyone thinks they have a race car and they want to chirp fourth gear.
" twin disc is better for daily driving and the single has a more ON/OFF feel to it, better for track use..."
Actually it is not surface "area" that increases the torque capacity, it is the number of surfaces. The formula for clutch torque capacity is T=PxFxNxR where T=torque capacity in ftlbs, P=pounds of clamping force, N=number of friction surfaces (two for single disc), and R=radius of gyration in feet (disc size). When you increase surface area without changing number of surfaces you are actually decreasing the pressure (psi) applied to the fricton surface proportionally. When you add a second disc, you literally double the torque capacity if all other factors are unchanged. There are difficulties and drawbacks to multi-plate clutch design as well.
A single is not necessarilly more on/off. The stock single disc isn't for instance. The on/off aspect of the clutch is a result of the coefficient of friction and the pressure acting on the friction surface and the proper use of a marcel between the linings. If you double the clamp load but use a stock disc, it will engage just like stock. Of course you will need to use both feet to push it in. If you use a stock pressure plate and use an aggressive disc, it will chatter and be more of an on/off switch. There are many design considerations to get the right balance to make the most people happy. I have countless customers who use our race clutches on their Hondas and claim they are totally streetable. I think they are crazy. Of course everyone thinks they have a race car and they want to chirp fourth gear.
Jul 11, 2003, 05:19 PM
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Dirk - I did not mean to say that ever single disk clutch was more on off, just that the Exedy Hyper Single is when compared with their twin disk setup
Jul 14, 2003, 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by Z1 Performance
Dirk - I did not mean to say that ever single disk clutch was more on off, just that the Exedy Hyper Single is when compared with their twin disk setup
Dirk - I did not mean to say that ever single disk clutch was more on off, just that the Exedy Hyper Single is when compared with their twin disk setup