I don't have time to argue about this but I will say for example on your map vs the map off my brother' girlfriend's evo9 that at say 120L 3000-R your target afr value is 10.0 while, the map I have has a value of 14.3. It makes no sense for you to alter the map to be this blocked, there is no need to block cells like you have. Im not knocking you, I think its cool that you are involved in the tuning of your own car but your methods are far from ideal and very "lazy".

Have fun

 

^^ I enjoy the feedback but let me explain.....

Load 120 @ 3000 rpm with advanced timing, advanced mivec, more boost, and lean spool needs more fuel than stock.

Either way I'm only in that load cell for a blink of an eye as that is when the boost starts to hit and load jumps rapidly.

Once you take off the restrictive exhaust and crank the boost the tune needs to change.

Other places you will see my fuel map vary is at 7k+. That is where lean spool turns off and the AFR normally gets richer. By maintaining the blocked AFR at 7k I have allowed my car to richen up. You can see this on the AFR map. Reason being.... I have no business at 7k+ as I am losing power. If I find myself at that RPM its because I need the RPM and I don't want to shift. If that is the case I like having extra fuel. Most 8 guys run out of fuel pump at this level but as you can see the stock 9 fuel pump is fine for this tune.

 

I think the term "lazy" is being misused. Different, yes, but this method isnt really different than the "standard" way of tuning if you stop and look at where the changes are. Is it necessary to alter the whole line, well no, but it will only affect where the crossover point is (i.e. 120@3000r). I mean really who is likely to be at 120l at 8K? or 500r? Not too likely.

 

good point JB.... which is why most people use some sort of block tuning without actually realizing they are. My new tune is a great example.... from about 200 load to 320 from 2000 rpm up i have everything set to 2*. Its not like i will ever see those cells during a log, who cares what you put there. As long as my timing curve is smooth as i travel thru the RPM ranges and the fuel is where i need it to be to get my target AFR, it doesnt matter how i get there.

oh, and you arent suppose to run and 11.5 and lose lol

 

I really do not understand block tuning. There is absolutely no need for it. I like to follow the pattern set by the stock rom. If there are sections in the stock rom that are block tuned, then I will block tune. But the areas that you hit during WOT are NOT block tuned in the stock rom. So why do it in a tuned rom? Why not follow the same elegant pattern set by the stock rom only do it @ a more aggressive level of tune?

Block tuned maps that I see suggest two things:

1. The tuner does not have the time to figure out what exact cells is the car hitting. Maybe he does not know how to log 2byte load or maybe he does not want to take the time to modify the xml files in order to log it.

2. The tuner does not have the tools to figure out the load cells that are hit during WOT operation. I log with Evoscan but I read in Logworks. The latter allows me to create charts that are an exact replica of the fuel and timing tables in the rom. I can average, maximize, mininmize or use standard deviation on the values in these rom like charts. I can compile 3 to 4 logs per chart. This way I do not have to rely on one log for AFR or timing values. I love these two programs and use them in conjunction to tune.

You can achieve the same power output using a more elegant method.

 

i wish i could get my damn logworks to work

 

Bigric09, its even worse when you here what I lost to in that race. My defense is I had to shift to 5th.

NJ, elegant is good but not always necessary and that was kind of my point. I am not going to go out and start tuning all my cars this way (since I have a method I like) but at the same time I dont build a house with floorplans that look like something DaVinci drew just cause it might be more elegant. If it works, works for the individual tuner then great. I can think of at least 2 tuners (not the "big name" ones) that run sub 11.5 stock turbo times and tune very similar.

ps- its kind of bad form to say bad about someone who just paid you a compliment btw.

 

Jeff,

Not bad numbers at all... I must bring a topic relevant to the pump vs race subject. There is a good friend of mine and Evo member(fastrob691) which made astonishing numbers by going from pump to 100oct.

This is his signature:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EVO IX RS WW
Hallman Pro RX MBC,BUSHUR Pod Filter,Helix Catback/catdelete, HELIX 02 Housing, Perrin DP, Walbro 255,Dejon UICP, AMS LICP,DYNOFLASH,exedy twin disk, FORGE IX WGA, APS BOV.
Swift Springs, Hotchkiss Rear Bar, Baer Two Piece rotors, Hawk HPS pads, KAIXEN HID SSR Type C-RS, 17x8.5, 31mm off set
331 Hp and 335 TQ MD Pump
372 AWHP 389 AWTQ pure 100 octane mustang dyno
11.93 Best ET Tucson AZ(3075ft), car weight 3030 minus spare tools 1/4 tank fuel Best MPH 116.25 QTR(3600ft)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I couldn't let it pass without mentioning especially when the power increase was so large. And this is the direct link :

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=236458

Impressive indeed!!


Carlos

 

i think he just wants to go fast, and he could care less how pretty his maps are.

 

Your welcome. Jeff, please do not take my comments as an attack. They are not. I think that I have too much time on my hands and I use that time to create non-block tuned maps.

Block tuning can be made to work, but I do not do it. I like to take my time and create maps that are very elegant.

I am certain that if you have more time to do this, then you will not block tune. Also using Logworks to read Evoscan logs makes the need for block tuning totally unnecessary. It is mazing what these two programs can do when used together.

Good job on the tune and the numbers. As long as the car is not knocking, then that is what counts.

 

^ Thanks... .... I agree theres more in the car and it could be extracted with more dyno time, road tuning, and dedication.

My AFR get dialed in better. I could work on fine tuning boost. My timing could ramp up faster and probably go north of where it is now. I think if I was into drag racing more than road racing I would go the extra mile but since the car is somewhat detuned I'm just happy with the results as it stands.

On my 03 I spent a great deal of time fine tuning my race gas map but when I logged I didn't alway see the return on investment. Both of my cars ramped up soo fast that the interopolation of the timing and fuel maps pretty much matched what I have now. The only values that really have time to establish themselves are the peak torque and 5.5-7k range.

Lets look at my pump gas timing map. Lets say I spike to 280 then hold 260 fading up top to 240. If you look at the map starting at 3k ending at 7k you will see the that its very incremental and not blocked at all. If you then focus on the rpm range 5k-7k its very healthy.

 

1st thanks Jeff for posting up this info , its crazy what the IX can do with so little

And i have question (for really anyone)
What do the "VVT" #'s represent ?
Is it degrees of timing advance for the ex cam ? If so I though that you would want to retard the timing up top or at least run "0" degrees of timing . Iam drawing this hypothesis from my evo 8 and the retarded cam gears setting ever one was using to make more hp up top .

 

its timing on the intake cam ... and you cant talk until you get a new evo lol

how you been man.... i've seen a few ix's pop up for sale in the forums. Get on that. Justin is running at the track tomorrow, i may as well if you can come down.

 

yeah intake not ex cam what was i thinking .
This is how i *think* it works
--Avdance intake cam timing = more power lower in the power band
--Retard intake cam timing = more power higher in the power band
So why not run 0* up top ? or is the cam center line off from what iam use to with the evo 8 cams ????

Ric ill post up in the SE from about the other stuff

 

If you took a look a the stock mivec map, and then made changes to different areas and dyno'd, you'd see the effects. Pretty much the trend seems to be run more timing advance earlier and less up top... i personally run more earlier and then a bit up top. More then this mivec shows, but definitely not 30's