New record for pump gas, set with the HTA35r
Nov 13, 2007, 06:38 PM
#61
Nice work david.
this new turbo makes amazing power & generates laods of torque down low for being a 35r-anything!!
your pump gas spool/torque betters most 50-trims!
for $hits & grins, can you overlay a 93 pump gas best of hta-35r & 20g-lt with similar mods while using a aem ecu?
damn you.......now you have me 2nd guessing getting a 20g-lt.........
this new turbo makes amazing power & generates laods of torque down low for being a 35r-anything!!
your pump gas spool/torque betters most 50-trims!
for $hits & grins, can you overlay a 93 pump gas best of hta-35r & 20g-lt with similar mods while using a aem ecu?
damn you.......now you have me 2nd guessing getting a 20g-lt.........
Nov 13, 2007, 06:48 PM
#62
The cast manifold, if that was all that was changed would probably yield less than 30 whp difference. Problem is we don't build a header for the FP housing to test that. This is a header and different turbine housing too.
I have to laugh at the "low compression" many people come up with over running 30 psi on pump gas. That is NOT the case. The compression ratio on this car is very close to 9:1.
Something else I want to point out. The guys in the UK are running high boost on their pump gas BUT to be honest, they aren't very fast. All I hear and read when I go to their website (which kick *** by the way) is how they don't believe what we are running or the power we are making. So I'm a bit confused on their high HP numbers as the ET's/MPH don't show it on most of the cars.
The timing, of course, has a lot to do with running high boost on low octane. Keep in mind that timing creates cylinder pressure, which creates HP, which can also eventually create detonation too. So the key to making power, whether it is on pump gas, race gas or anything else is to control detonation and cylinder pressure. It's really quite simple and I didn't realize how simple it was until probably about a year ago now.
Get the air in and back out as easily as possible. I'd venture to guess I could run a GT42R on this same car at 40 psi of boost on 93 octane without a problem. The reason is the compressor wheel is efficient, keeps the charge air temps cool and the exhaust wheel keeps back pressure down which keeps the cylinders free of the old backed up exhaust from the last event.
Porting the head is important, we spend a lot of time in the combustion chambers which helps control detonation.
A real freaking intercooler (not half the garbage that is being sold) is a HUGE HUGE HUGE role in running high boost on low octane. Did I mention it is a HUGE part of it? You can't have a restrictive sh itty intercooler on the car that has high increases in charge air temps. This car was gaining maybe 10 degrees at 40 psi on a full 3,000-8,000 rpm 4th gear pull. You can't run a POS FMIC that gains 40+ degrees of IAT and expect to make power. I just had two cars here on the same day last week. One had just a few parts on it from us, one of those was our Race FMIC. The other car had nothing on it from us with some jacked up POS FMIC. He was knocking and I was fighting the car. I showed him the logs of the car before him and his. The car before gained like 6 degrees, his was gaining 47 degrees.
Camshafts play a HUGE roll in it too.
The turbine housing, 02 housing and the exhaust are HUGE too.
It all comes down to pumping the coolest air you can into an engine that has no back pressure or hotspots.
BTW, the timing in this car is nowhere near 0 degrees at 30 psi of boost, not even close. I don't have the maps with me and if I did I'm not even sure I'd share the exact numbers but I will guess I had 6 degrees at peak torque at 30 psi, well the car didn't hit 30 psi but you get the point.
Daniel's car (my brother) with the stock turbo has low timing to get by with 30+ on pump. His car is probably down to 1-2 degrees but we are talking about a BONE STOCK turbo on 93 at over 30 psi on a daily basis for the last year.
That's it, those are the tips I want to share. I have more, one very recent but I like to stay one step ahead so I have to keep something for my own car
I have to laugh at the "low compression" many people come up with over running 30 psi on pump gas. That is NOT the case. The compression ratio on this car is very close to 9:1.
Something else I want to point out. The guys in the UK are running high boost on their pump gas BUT to be honest, they aren't very fast. All I hear and read when I go to their website (which kick *** by the way) is how they don't believe what we are running or the power we are making. So I'm a bit confused on their high HP numbers as the ET's/MPH don't show it on most of the cars.
The timing, of course, has a lot to do with running high boost on low octane. Keep in mind that timing creates cylinder pressure, which creates HP, which can also eventually create detonation too. So the key to making power, whether it is on pump gas, race gas or anything else is to control detonation and cylinder pressure. It's really quite simple and I didn't realize how simple it was until probably about a year ago now.
Get the air in and back out as easily as possible. I'd venture to guess I could run a GT42R on this same car at 40 psi of boost on 93 octane without a problem. The reason is the compressor wheel is efficient, keeps the charge air temps cool and the exhaust wheel keeps back pressure down which keeps the cylinders free of the old backed up exhaust from the last event.
Porting the head is important, we spend a lot of time in the combustion chambers which helps control detonation.
A real freaking intercooler (not half the garbage that is being sold) is a HUGE HUGE HUGE role in running high boost on low octane. Did I mention it is a HUGE part of it? You can't have a restrictive sh itty intercooler on the car that has high increases in charge air temps. This car was gaining maybe 10 degrees at 40 psi on a full 3,000-8,000 rpm 4th gear pull. You can't run a POS FMIC that gains 40+ degrees of IAT and expect to make power. I just had two cars here on the same day last week. One had just a few parts on it from us, one of those was our Race FMIC. The other car had nothing on it from us with some jacked up POS FMIC. He was knocking and I was fighting the car. I showed him the logs of the car before him and his. The car before gained like 6 degrees, his was gaining 47 degrees.
Camshafts play a HUGE roll in it too.
The turbine housing, 02 housing and the exhaust are HUGE too.
It all comes down to pumping the coolest air you can into an engine that has no back pressure or hotspots.
BTW, the timing in this car is nowhere near 0 degrees at 30 psi of boost, not even close. I don't have the maps with me and if I did I'm not even sure I'd share the exact numbers but I will guess I had 6 degrees at peak torque at 30 psi, well the car didn't hit 30 psi but you get the point.
Daniel's car (my brother) with the stock turbo has low timing to get by with 30+ on pump. His car is probably down to 1-2 degrees but we are talking about a BONE STOCK turbo on 93 at over 30 psi on a daily basis for the last year.
That's it, those are the tips I want to share. I have more, one very recent but I like to stay one step ahead so I have to keep something for my own car
Nov 13, 2007, 07:10 PM
#66
dafoe, looked at that link and then followed it to MLR and read the topic there.
That car they are talking about, the first dyno sheets of 600 and 690, I hope everyone realizes was on an engine dyno, NOT chassis dyno. Then at the end of the thread he took that same car/engine to a DynoDynamics chassis dyno and on race gas layed down only 556 whp.
Back to more reading....
That car they are talking about, the first dyno sheets of 600 and 690, I hope everyone realizes was on an engine dyno, NOT chassis dyno. Then at the end of the thread he took that same car/engine to a DynoDynamics chassis dyno and on race gas layed down only 556 whp.
Back to more reading....
Nov 13, 2007, 07:21 PM
#67
OK, pump/alky tune is finished. 33 psi of boost peak and only for a second of the run.
AFR's in the high 10:1's. I know it will make more power leaner but I am pretty freaking happy like it is and see no reason to lean on it to make more.
Now back to work and see what some C16 will do. Hell I'd have been happy with 588 on C16!!
AFR's in the high 10:1's. I know it will make more power leaner but I am pretty freaking happy like it is and see no reason to lean on it to make more.
Now back to work and see what some C16 will do. Hell I'd have been happy with 588 on C16!!
Dammit Dave,
You are the man!!! Sometime next spring 08' or summer 08' I hope that I can drop of my car do the stage 3 block, head, tranny, and tuning with the HTA35R
I already have all the supporting mods now.....
I hope my chart can look something like this on 93+meth.....
I really dont care too much about a C16 map though.....you can probably skip that for all I care lol
Last edited by Blue Evo 8; Nov 13, 2007 at 07:28 PM.
. Looking at his mods and everyone else's it appears about he only thing I'm lacking is a stage 3 head. I wonder if that would make any difference on my numbers. 
Nov 13, 2007, 08:22 PM
#70
His mods-----------vs.--------------My Mods:
BR full 3" turbo back with TWO mufflers................. AMS 3" Turboback
BR Race FMIC.............................BR Race FMIC
BR Stage 3, 2 liter...............stock block (planning on getting your stg 3.)
BR Stage 3 head..................stock head (planning on getting your stg 3.)
BF272 cams............................HKS 280 cams
BR double pumper.................Walboro 255 (may have to shell out extra $$ for this)
1000 cc injectors.....................Precision 1000cc injectors
BR header turbo kit, all ceramic coated with the HTA35r turbo.........AMS 50 Trim kit
BR lightweight battery kit......................................AMS lightweight battery kit
BR upper and lower 2.5" i/c pipes....................I have AMS/Turbotrix 2.5" IC piping
BR coil on plug igntion......................HKS DLI II (will probably have to ditch this)
BR ported stock intake manifold............getting mine ported at BR now
BR 65 mm throttle body....................getting mine ported at BR now
AEM EMS................................AEM EMS, 5 bar map, converted to speed density
SMC alky kit (not turned on yet).........SMC V2 alky kit, M7 nozzle
Tilton clutch..................ACT MB7-XTSS clutch on the stock flywheel
so what do you think Dave? I modded my car ready to build to the next level.....
BR full 3" turbo back with TWO mufflers................. AMS 3" Turboback
BR Race FMIC.............................BR Race FMIC
BR Stage 3, 2 liter...............stock block (planning on getting your stg 3.)
BR Stage 3 head..................stock head (planning on getting your stg 3.)
BF272 cams............................HKS 280 cams
BR double pumper.................Walboro 255 (may have to shell out extra $$ for this)
1000 cc injectors.....................Precision 1000cc injectors
BR header turbo kit, all ceramic coated with the HTA35r turbo.........AMS 50 Trim kit
BR lightweight battery kit......................................AMS lightweight battery kit
BR upper and lower 2.5" i/c pipes....................I have AMS/Turbotrix 2.5" IC piping
BR coil on plug igntion......................HKS DLI II (will probably have to ditch this)
BR ported stock intake manifold............getting mine ported at BR now
BR 65 mm throttle body....................getting mine ported at BR now
AEM EMS................................AEM EMS, 5 bar map, converted to speed density
SMC alky kit (not turned on yet).........SMC V2 alky kit, M7 nozzle
Tilton clutch..................ACT MB7-XTSS clutch on the stock flywheel
so what do you think Dave? I modded my car ready to build to the next level.....
Nov 13, 2007, 08:53 PM
#73
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dafoe, looked at that link and then followed it to MLR and read the topic there.
That car they are talking about, the first dyno sheets of 600 and 690, I hope everyone realizes was on an engine dyno, NOT chassis dyno. Then at the end of the thread he took that same car/engine to a DynoDynamics chassis dyno and on race gas layed down only 556 whp.
Back to more reading....
That car they are talking about, the first dyno sheets of 600 and 690, I hope everyone realizes was on an engine dyno, NOT chassis dyno. Then at the end of the thread he took that same car/engine to a DynoDynamics chassis dyno and on race gas layed down only 556 whp.
Back to more reading....
Nov 14, 2007, 04:33 AM
#74
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few things i wish....
1. AEM was cheaper
2. we could run AEM in NY
3. David flashed stock ecu's because of the fact i do live in NY
4. Buschur Racing was closer
5. I HAD MOE MONEY!
/ rant
1. AEM was cheaper
2. we could run AEM in NY
3. David flashed stock ecu's because of the fact i do live in NY
4. Buschur Racing was closer
5. I HAD MOE MONEY!
/ rant
