ETS 50, 54, and 58 trim
Jun 19, 2008, 08:20 AM
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ETS 50, 54, and 58 trim
Hey guys I've done some searching but haven't really found what i'm looking for. Which of these three turbos would you recommend if I wanted 420whp on 93 oct. and around 450whp on 50/50 meth? I plan on staying with the stock 2L for quite a while so lag is a slight concern (that might rule out the 58 trim?). I've seen almost no info about the 54 trim which seems to be the middle of the road. The car's setup will be the typical bolt-ons, 780's, cosi 272 IX with the ETS super value kit, just not sure which turbo. Thanks for any suggestions.
-Chris
-Chris
Jun 19, 2008, 08:42 AM
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i have the 58 trim currently and was not happy with it. i have a ton of surge issues and currently am switching to the hta 35r. a very well known tuner on this forum who does my car told me flat out when he tuned me that the evo generally does not respond well to this turbo. the 50 and 54 trim turbos respond much better and i good freind of mine went with the 61mm and had very good results. the spool wasnt much worse than the 58mm and there was no surge issues. i would say go with the 61mm for the power range your looking for.
Jun 19, 2008, 10:16 AM
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i have the 58 trim currently and was not happy with it. i have a ton of surge issues and currently am switching to the hta 35r. a very well known tuner on this forum who does my car told me flat out when he tuned me that the evo generally does not respond well to this turbo. the 50 and 54 trim turbos respond much better and i good freind of mine went with the 61mm and had very good results. the spool wasnt much worse than the 58mm and there was no surge issues. i would say go with the 61mm for the power range your looking for.
Jun 19, 2008, 11:50 AM
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I previously owned the 57 trim from ETS and the only reason i decided to change the turbo was becasue i became hungry for more power. The 57 trim with 92 octane pump gas and very conservative tune, i made 402whp and 350wtq. I loved the way it spooled and there were no surge issue. There are several guys here on the forum who run the 57 trims and they have no issues with surge and most of them have made good power. I am currently switching out the 57trim for a 61mm turbo with an s-cover from ETS. The spool characteristics of the 61mm turbo is very similar to the 57 trim, maybe a couple hundred rpms or so but i think the lag is not that bad (this is from a friend's car who pretty much has the same mods as i do and he runs the 61mm turbo from ETS). The 61mm turbo is a great turbo which produces great power and should be able to yield the results you are seeking pretty easily. Goodluck and PM me if you need any other questions answered about the ETS kits 
.
.
Jun 19, 2008, 02:45 PM
#6
Chris,
Depending on how aggressive your tuner wants to get, the dyno you're using and many other factors you may have a hard time hitting the 420whp on pump gas with a 50-trim, but could get in the 450whp range on a 50/50 mix pushing fairly hard. If you plan on running pump gas and 20-25psi primarily the 50-trim will offer the best possible powerband/area under the curve. The 54-trim is an oddball and isn't as efficient of a combination of wheels as some of the other options so it's not one I particularly recommend. We offer it because we offer just about any turbo you can think of to make sure everyone gets exactly what they want rather than limiting the options
If you'll be running the 50/50 mix all the time and 26-30psi will be your regular boost level then a slightly bigger turbo such as the GT3076R or even slightly larger 58mm would be good choices. I know you didn't mention anything larger, but just for reference, a 35R really shines at 28psi and in that boost range will stomp the others.
I run a 58mm BB Equal Length kit on my EVO and am extremely happy with the combination of spool, response off to on boost and top end. To me it is in the ideal size range for a street EVO, and to take full advantage I run E85 and 27-28psi daily. I'd be happy to discuss the options with you so feel free to get a hold of me any time!
To address what John said, the EVO 4g63 is more prone to surge than some other platforms due to the limitations of flow through the stock head at low RPM. Quick spooling medium sized turbos especially will produce enough airflow down low that there can be surge creating backpressure. This typically must be induced by going WOT at low RPM in high gear and is experience by many of the high power stock turbo guys for the same reason. The easiest solution is to get a turbocharger like the 61mm BB or 35R which spools more slowly and alleviates that issue altogether, but modifying the head for better flow is the best way to keep quick spool and avoid surge as much as possible. Loose compressor wheel to compressor housing tolerances in turbo manufacturing is another factor that contributes to surge, which can be alleviated with a ported compressor cover. That is somewhat of a band-aid solution as it effectively reduces the efficiency of any compressor.
There are many variables to consider when making a turbo choice so I welcome questions and discussion! If I don't know the answer, I'll have an easy time finding it out with the years of experience in our shop and with our turbo suppliers
Tom
Depending on how aggressive your tuner wants to get, the dyno you're using and many other factors you may have a hard time hitting the 420whp on pump gas with a 50-trim, but could get in the 450whp range on a 50/50 mix pushing fairly hard. If you plan on running pump gas and 20-25psi primarily the 50-trim will offer the best possible powerband/area under the curve. The 54-trim is an oddball and isn't as efficient of a combination of wheels as some of the other options so it's not one I particularly recommend. We offer it because we offer just about any turbo you can think of to make sure everyone gets exactly what they want rather than limiting the options
If you'll be running the 50/50 mix all the time and 26-30psi will be your regular boost level then a slightly bigger turbo such as the GT3076R or even slightly larger 58mm would be good choices. I know you didn't mention anything larger, but just for reference, a 35R really shines at 28psi and in that boost range will stomp the others. I run a 58mm BB Equal Length kit on my EVO and am extremely happy with the combination of spool, response off to on boost and top end. To me it is in the ideal size range for a street EVO, and to take full advantage I run E85 and 27-28psi daily. I'd be happy to discuss the options with you so feel free to get a hold of me any time!
To address what John said, the EVO 4g63 is more prone to surge than some other platforms due to the limitations of flow through the stock head at low RPM. Quick spooling medium sized turbos especially will produce enough airflow down low that there can be surge creating backpressure. This typically must be induced by going WOT at low RPM in high gear and is experience by many of the high power stock turbo guys for the same reason. The easiest solution is to get a turbocharger like the 61mm BB or 35R which spools more slowly and alleviates that issue altogether, but modifying the head for better flow is the best way to keep quick spool and avoid surge as much as possible. Loose compressor wheel to compressor housing tolerances in turbo manufacturing is another factor that contributes to surge, which can be alleviated with a ported compressor cover. That is somewhat of a band-aid solution as it effectively reduces the efficiency of any compressor.
There are many variables to consider when making a turbo choice so I welcome questions and discussion! If I don't know the answer, I'll have an easy time finding it out with the years of experience in our shop and with our turbo suppliers
Tom
Jun 19, 2008, 06:01 PM
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Chris,
Depending on how aggressive your tuner wants to get, the dyno you're using and many other factors you may have a hard time hitting the 420whp on pump gas with a 50-trim, but could get in the 450whp range on a 50/50 mix pushing fairly hard. If you plan on running pump gas and 20-25psi primarily the 50-trim will offer the best possible powerband/area under the curve. The 54-trim is an oddball and isn't as efficient of a combination of wheels as some of the other options so it's not one I particularly recommend. We offer it because we offer just about any turbo you can think of to make sure everyone gets exactly what they want rather than limiting the options If you'll be running the 50/50 mix all the time and 26-30psi will be your regular boost level then a slightly bigger turbo such as the GT3076R or even slightly larger 58mm would be good choices. I know you didn't mention anything larger, but just for reference, a 35R really shines at 28psi and in that boost range will stomp the others.
I run a 58mm BB Equal Length kit on my EVO and am extremely happy with the combination of spool, response off to on boost and top end. To me it is in the ideal size range for a street EVO, and to take full advantage I run E85 and 27-28psi daily. I'd be happy to discuss the options with you so feel free to get a hold of me any time!
To address what John said, the EVO 4g63 is more prone to surge than some other platforms due to the limitations of flow through the stock head at low RPM. Quick spooling medium sized turbos especially will produce enough airflow down low that there can be surge creating backpressure. This typically must be induced by going WOT at low RPM in high gear and is experience by many of the high power stock turbo guys for the same reason. The easiest solution is to get a turbocharger like the 61mm BB or 35R which spools more slowly and alleviates that issue altogether, but modifying the head for better flow is the best way to keep quick spool and avoid surge as much as possible. Loose compressor wheel to compressor housing tolerances in turbo manufacturing is another factor that contributes to surge, which can be alleviated with a ported compressor cover. That is somewhat of a band-aid solution as it effectively reduces the efficiency of any compressor.
There are many variables to consider when making a turbo choice so I welcome questions and discussion! If I don't know the answer, I'll have an easy time finding it out with the years of experience in our shop and with our turbo suppliers
Tom
Depending on how aggressive your tuner wants to get, the dyno you're using and many other factors you may have a hard time hitting the 420whp on pump gas with a 50-trim, but could get in the 450whp range on a 50/50 mix pushing fairly hard. If you plan on running pump gas and 20-25psi primarily the 50-trim will offer the best possible powerband/area under the curve. The 54-trim is an oddball and isn't as efficient of a combination of wheels as some of the other options so it's not one I particularly recommend. We offer it because we offer just about any turbo you can think of to make sure everyone gets exactly what they want rather than limiting the options
If you'll be running the 50/50 mix all the time and 26-30psi will be your regular boost level then a slightly bigger turbo such as the GT3076R or even slightly larger 58mm would be good choices. I know you didn't mention anything larger, but just for reference, a 35R really shines at 28psi and in that boost range will stomp the others. I run a 58mm BB Equal Length kit on my EVO and am extremely happy with the combination of spool, response off to on boost and top end. To me it is in the ideal size range for a street EVO, and to take full advantage I run E85 and 27-28psi daily. I'd be happy to discuss the options with you so feel free to get a hold of me any time!
To address what John said, the EVO 4g63 is more prone to surge than some other platforms due to the limitations of flow through the stock head at low RPM. Quick spooling medium sized turbos especially will produce enough airflow down low that there can be surge creating backpressure. This typically must be induced by going WOT at low RPM in high gear and is experience by many of the high power stock turbo guys for the same reason. The easiest solution is to get a turbocharger like the 61mm BB or 35R which spools more slowly and alleviates that issue altogether, but modifying the head for better flow is the best way to keep quick spool and avoid surge as much as possible. Loose compressor wheel to compressor housing tolerances in turbo manufacturing is another factor that contributes to surge, which can be alleviated with a ported compressor cover. That is somewhat of a band-aid solution as it effectively reduces the efficiency of any compressor.
There are many variables to consider when making a turbo choice so I welcome questions and discussion! If I don't know the answer, I'll have an easy time finding it out with the years of experience in our shop and with our turbo suppliers
Tom
Another benefit of the PT61BB would be the reduced risk of surging because of the increased time it takes to spool. Does this sound like a good idea? To tell you the truth, I feel more comfortable running a larger turbo on pump to make power than a smaller turbo on meth to achieve power.
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Jun 20, 2008, 08:28 AM
#12
Alan and David definitely make great cases for the 58mm and 61mm respectively, and it's definitely all in personal taste as to which you prefer. The 61mm is far less likely to surge under any conditions due to its size, as you said will have an easier time making big peak numbers on pump and will have a ton of power left in it with the addition of some "injection" later on
Tom
Tom
Jun 20, 2008, 08:29 AM
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phenix and xiaoni - Are you guys on stock displacement?
What about the 3082 (3065) that ETS sells? Is that equivalent to buschur's 3065? From the dynos i've seen, it looks like the PT61BB or the 3065 is what i'm looking for.
-Chris
What about the 3082 (3065) that ETS sells? Is that equivalent to buschur's 3065? From the dynos i've seen, it looks like the PT61BB or the 3065 is what i'm looking for.
-Chris