Need some help and guidance......
Jun 22, 2008, 07:58 PM
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Need some help and guidance......
Ok, so I bought my WW evo IX gsr a couple weeks ago (from a great seller here I might add).
Performance wise it currently has:
HKS RS intake
HKS dp
UR HFC
Greddy SP2 catback
Cossworth 272 cams
ARP headstuds
Walbro 255 fuel pump
AMS FMIC and LICP
Hallman MBC
350whp/320wtq Tuned @ 22psi
Now after reading on the boards for a while (and searching), I came up with quite a few questions that I was not satisfied with answering myself from searching.
1. I've noticed most dyno charts I've seen around these hp numbers, usually have higher torque numbers, ie 350whp & 370wtq. The seller I bought the car from said he wasn't particularly happy with the tune, and he said it was pretty conservative. I was wandering what should be the number I could hope for, just by re-tuning it? and is 22psi about the safest way to push the limits without over-doing it and needing larger injectors ect to accomodate?
2. I suppose I should tell you what I'm looking for before my next question. I want a very reliable daily driver, but at the same time I want enough juice to put down a vette or two, thinking 400whp would be about my limit. So that being said, where should I go from here? I was thinking o2 housing, and replacing the HFC with a test pipe/resonated test pipe, and was also suggested that I up the injectors? Problem is I haven't really seen a good option as far as o2 housings go, as I've heard sooner or later, they all will break. Also what about a tubular exhaust manifold, or an inexpensive port and polish on the TB and IM? Any good opinions or suggestions as far as which of the above mentioned would be most benificial with the retune?
3. What are the draw backs or extra concerns I should be aware of when getting up near those type of numbers, any extra precautions I should take ect?
4. I'm still on the stock clutch, and it seems to be holding out just fine for now, how long until you think it will need to be replaced, esp if I up the hp a bit?
I'm sure I will have more questions, but any info is appreciated, I'd love to hear from some shops/tuners as well! thanks in advance!
Performance wise it currently has:
HKS RS intake
HKS dp
UR HFC
Greddy SP2 catback
Cossworth 272 cams
ARP headstuds
Walbro 255 fuel pump
AMS FMIC and LICP
Hallman MBC
350whp/320wtq Tuned @ 22psi
Now after reading on the boards for a while (and searching), I came up with quite a few questions that I was not satisfied with answering myself from searching.
1. I've noticed most dyno charts I've seen around these hp numbers, usually have higher torque numbers, ie 350whp & 370wtq. The seller I bought the car from said he wasn't particularly happy with the tune, and he said it was pretty conservative. I was wandering what should be the number I could hope for, just by re-tuning it? and is 22psi about the safest way to push the limits without over-doing it and needing larger injectors ect to accomodate?
2. I suppose I should tell you what I'm looking for before my next question. I want a very reliable daily driver, but at the same time I want enough juice to put down a vette or two, thinking 400whp would be about my limit. So that being said, where should I go from here? I was thinking o2 housing, and replacing the HFC with a test pipe/resonated test pipe, and was also suggested that I up the injectors? Problem is I haven't really seen a good option as far as o2 housings go, as I've heard sooner or later, they all will break. Also what about a tubular exhaust manifold, or an inexpensive port and polish on the TB and IM? Any good opinions or suggestions as far as which of the above mentioned would be most benificial with the retune?
3. What are the draw backs or extra concerns I should be aware of when getting up near those type of numbers, any extra precautions I should take ect?
4. I'm still on the stock clutch, and it seems to be holding out just fine for now, how long until you think it will need to be replaced, esp if I up the hp a bit?
I'm sure I will have more questions, but any info is appreciated, I'd love to hear from some shops/tuners as well! thanks in advance!
Jun 22, 2008, 08:14 PM
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1. Don't bother comparing numbers to whatever you find on the internet. If you want it retuned that's fine, and you can probably get another pound or two of boost without a problem. Find a reputable tuner and ask them about this one though...they will make the final call.
2. You have enough power to take down a Corvette. Learn to launch the car. If you want closer to 400whp there are a few things you can do. Obviously bigger turbo will get you there. A new tune sounds like it would help. If E85 is available around you thats another option. At the 400whp level the engine is still usually fine for daily driving duties. All the go fast parts you listed will help, but none by themselves will make night/day difference. My vote is for E85 if you can.
3. Regular fluid changes and maintenance and you will be fine.
4. You're going to need a clutch sooner than later. You're pretty much at the limits of the stock one. If you don't do much drag racing it may last a little while, but you're there so be prepared to drop some money on the trans.
Personally if it was my car, I'd get the retune and a new clutch at the same time. Make the move to E85 if you can. The results being posted on here are very good for what people like you and I are looking for.
2. You have enough power to take down a Corvette. Learn to launch the car. If you want closer to 400whp there are a few things you can do. Obviously bigger turbo will get you there. A new tune sounds like it would help. If E85 is available around you thats another option. At the 400whp level the engine is still usually fine for daily driving duties. All the go fast parts you listed will help, but none by themselves will make night/day difference. My vote is for E85 if you can.
3. Regular fluid changes and maintenance and you will be fine.
4. You're going to need a clutch sooner than later. You're pretty much at the limits of the stock one. If you don't do much drag racing it may last a little while, but you're there so be prepared to drop some money on the trans.
Personally if it was my car, I'd get the retune and a new clutch at the same time. Make the move to E85 if you can. The results being posted on here are very good for what people like you and I are looking for.
Jun 22, 2008, 08:25 PM
#3
1) First of all, I'm very skeptical of it making 350whp with those mods, because the DP is less than 3", it has a cat, and the cat-back is the least powerful one on the market just about. The rest of the mods are good, but I highly doubt it makes 350whp. Plus, you have 91oct in Indy, don't you, or is it 93 at the pump? Then, the torque is way off from norm like you said. To get 350whp, you'd have to run more than 22psi, and if you did, you'd have higher peak torque than peak whp. 320 means something is wrong, or these numbers just aren't right.
2) If you can get E-85 at the pump, then just get some injectors and do that along with an SS O2 and ported exhaust manifold.
3) Clutch mainly...maybe trans or t-case if you are racing.
4) You will definitely need a stronger clutch once you get to your goal. I'd recommend an Exedy Twin HD cerametallic. Go ahead and get it now, then put it in when the stocker starts to slip.
2) If you can get E-85 at the pump, then just get some injectors and do that along with an SS O2 and ported exhaust manifold.
3) Clutch mainly...maybe trans or t-case if you are racing.
4) You will definitely need a stronger clutch once you get to your goal. I'd recommend an Exedy Twin HD cerametallic. Go ahead and get it now, then put it in when the stocker starts to slip.
Jun 22, 2008, 08:36 PM
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1. Don't bother comparing numbers to whatever you find on the internet. If you want it retuned that's fine, and you can probably get another pound or two of boost without a problem. Find a reputable tuner and ask them about this one though...they will make the final call.
2. You have enough power to take down a Corvette. Learn to launch the car. If you want closer to 400whp there are a few things you can do. Obviously bigger turbo will get you there. A new tune sounds like it would help. If E85 is available around you thats another option. At the 400whp level the engine is still usually fine for daily driving duties. All the go fast parts you listed will help, but none by themselves will make night/day difference. My vote is for E85 if you can.
3. Regular fluid changes and maintenance and you will be fine.
4. You're going to need a clutch sooner than later. You're pretty much at the limits of the stock one. If you don't do much drag racing it may last a little while, but you're there so be prepared to drop some money on the trans.
Personally if it was my car, I'd get the retune and a new clutch at the same time. Make the move to E85 if you can. The results being posted on here are very good for what people like you and I are looking for.
2. You have enough power to take down a Corvette. Learn to launch the car. If you want closer to 400whp there are a few things you can do. Obviously bigger turbo will get you there. A new tune sounds like it would help. If E85 is available around you thats another option. At the 400whp level the engine is still usually fine for daily driving duties. All the go fast parts you listed will help, but none by themselves will make night/day difference. My vote is for E85 if you can.
3. Regular fluid changes and maintenance and you will be fine.
4. You're going to need a clutch sooner than later. You're pretty much at the limits of the stock one. If you don't do much drag racing it may last a little while, but you're there so be prepared to drop some money on the trans.
Personally if it was my car, I'd get the retune and a new clutch at the same time. Make the move to E85 if you can. The results being posted on here are very good for what people like you and I are looking for.
I know I have enough power to take a vette in the 1/4 mile, but from a 40-60mph pull with no off the line advantage?
E85 is avaliable here, however it's not every where, and I've read over time E85 can begin to break down components in cars not meant to handle it, I havent done enough research on it to really comment though? and with an E85 tune, can you also use normal 93 octane gas?
Yea I figured I am going to need to replace the cluth sooner rather than later, was hoping to get another year life out of it though (car only has 13k miles now, 3k with these mods). I don't drag race, ever really. Spirited driving here and there, more for my own enjoyment than anything, but most of the time I find myself takin it easy.
Jun 22, 2008, 08:43 PM
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1) First of all, I'm very skeptical of it making 350whp with those mods, because the DP is less than 3", it has a cat, and the cat-back is the least powerful one on the market just about. The rest of the mods are good, but I highly doubt it makes 350whp. Plus, you have 91oct in Indy, don't you, or is it 93 at the pump? Then, the torque is way off from norm like you said. To get 350whp, you'd have to run more than 22psi, and if you did, you'd have higher peak torque than peak whp. 320 means something is wrong, or these numbers just aren't right.
2) If you can get E-85 at the pump, then just get some injectors and do that along with an SS O2 and ported exhaust manifold.
3) Clutch mainly...maybe trans or t-case if you are racing.
4) You will definitely need a stronger clutch once you get to your goal. I'd recommend an Exedy Twin HD cerametallic. Go ahead and get it now, then put it in when the stocker starts to slip.
2) If you can get E-85 at the pump, then just get some injectors and do that along with an SS O2 and ported exhaust manifold.
3) Clutch mainly...maybe trans or t-case if you are racing.
4) You will definitely need a stronger clutch once you get to your goal. I'd recommend an Exedy Twin HD cerametallic. Go ahead and get it now, then put it in when the stocker starts to slip.
We do have 93 octane here in indy. I don't have too much info about the dyno, other than it was done a couple different times. All I have is this graph from the seller, I will talk to him to see if he has any other info ect he can share.
how is the quality of ss autochromes stuff? I know for other cars, it's not fantastic. Will it eventually break? And should I go with a ported exhaust manifold or tubular ones? I thought I read that the ported stocker didnt net much gains, but provided reliability.
*I know the graph doesnt match the numbers I stated, but like I said it was retuned a couple times, and in the for sale ad, the numbers where 350whp, and 320wtq, So I assume thats after this graph?
Last edited by t mac; Jun 22, 2008 at 08:48 PM.
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Jun 22, 2008, 09:26 PM
#8
Yea I figured I am going to need to replace the cluth sooner rather than later, was hoping to get another year life out of it though (car only has 13k miles now, 3k with these mods). I don't drag race, ever really. Spirited driving here and there, more for my own enjoyment than anything, but most of the time I find myself takin it easy.
I thought I read that the ported stocker didnt net much gains, but provided reliability.
Jun 22, 2008, 09:38 PM
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Yes, you should not really compare numbers on the net. It'll just give you an unnecessary stress
As for the DP, yeah those aren't 3" , but like 2.75" I believe? No cat will help for sure.
As for the exhaust, sp2's are very conservative exhaust. I bet they are very quiet but you will lose some performance.
I got my first tune and I was VERY disappointed. I net like 290whp AFTER the bolt ons and tune on a DYNOJET.
With many research and feedback now I sit happily at 340/340 on DynoDynamics, and daily driven, 23k miles on stock clutch from 15k~ miles and not a peep of problems. Just make sure you do regular maintenance and you'll be fine.
Good luck
As for the DP, yeah those aren't 3" , but like 2.75" I believe? No cat will help for sure.
As for the exhaust, sp2's are very conservative exhaust. I bet they are very quiet but you will lose some performance.
I got my first tune and I was VERY disappointed. I net like 290whp AFTER the bolt ons and tune on a DYNOJET.
With many research and feedback now I sit happily at 340/340 on DynoDynamics, and daily driven, 23k miles on stock clutch from 15k~ miles and not a peep of problems. Just make sure you do regular maintenance and you'll be fine.
Good luck
Jun 22, 2008, 09:40 PM
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I never said I read that on this forum, however I have read that e85 can wear over time on some plastics or rubbers, like I stated I have not read up on this topic, as it is not something I am considering bc it is not practical for me.
My basis for wanting around 375-400whp is based off what I have now assuming that it is 350 and I would not mind having that extra power. I do not blow by everyone on a daily basis, but hitting the track once, maybe twice a year, and messing around on the side is enough for me to want a little more than what I have now, hence only wanting minor modifications, and not to the extent of replacing the factory turbo.
So the ported stock EM nets the same power as a tubular EM?
My basis for wanting around 375-400whp is based off what I have now assuming that it is 350 and I would not mind having that extra power. I do not blow by everyone on a daily basis, but hitting the track once, maybe twice a year, and messing around on the side is enough for me to want a little more than what I have now, hence only wanting minor modifications, and not to the extent of replacing the factory turbo.
So the ported stock EM nets the same power as a tubular EM?
Jun 22, 2008, 09:55 PM
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Yes, you should not really compare numbers on the net. It'll just give you an unnecessary stress
As for the DP, yeah those aren't 3" , but like 2.75" I believe? No cat will help for sure.
As for the exhaust, sp2's are very conservative exhaust. I bet they are very quiet but you will lose some performance.
I got my first tune and I was VERY disappointed. I net like 290whp AFTER the bolt ons and tune on a DYNOJET.
With many research and feedback now I sit happily at 340/340 on DynoDynamics, and daily driven, 23k miles on stock clutch from 15k~ miles and not a peep of problems. Just make sure you do regular maintenance and you'll be fine.
Good luck
As for the DP, yeah those aren't 3" , but like 2.75" I believe? No cat will help for sure.
As for the exhaust, sp2's are very conservative exhaust. I bet they are very quiet but you will lose some performance.
I got my first tune and I was VERY disappointed. I net like 290whp AFTER the bolt ons and tune on a DYNOJET.
With many research and feedback now I sit happily at 340/340 on DynoDynamics, and daily driven, 23k miles on stock clutch from 15k~ miles and not a peep of problems. Just make sure you do regular maintenance and you'll be fine.
Good luck
do you mind me asking what mods you have?
Jun 22, 2008, 10:26 PM
#12
I never said I read that on this forum, however I have read that e85 can wear over time on some plastics or rubbers, like I stated I have not read up on this topic, as it is not something I am considering bc it is not practical for me.
My basis for wanting around 375-400whp is based off what I have now assuming that it is 350 and I would not mind having that extra power. I do not blow by everyone on a daily basis, but hitting the track once, maybe twice a year, and messing around on the side is enough for me to want a little more than what I have now, hence only wanting minor modifications, and not to the extent of replacing the factory turbo.
So the ported stock EM nets the same power as a tubular EM?
My basis for wanting around 375-400whp is based off what I have now assuming that it is 350 and I would not mind having that extra power. I do not blow by everyone on a daily basis, but hitting the track once, maybe twice a year, and messing around on the side is enough for me to want a little more than what I have now, hence only wanting minor modifications, and not to the extent of replacing the factory turbo.
So the ported stock EM nets the same power as a tubular EM?
I hope it has 350whp, but I just doubt it based off the mods and HP/TQ ratio. For instance, on that same type of dyno (DynoDynamics), I have 325whp, and you see the results in my sig. Do you think you're making as much power as I am? Or 25whp more for that matter?
No, the stock EM ported makes MORE power than most tubular EMs. You have to research stuff...
Jun 22, 2008, 11:11 PM
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It's not practical for me because it is not in enough places, and I simply do not have the time to drive well out of my way a couple times a week to purchase gas. Like I said, it is not practical.
And yes, did I not clearly state above, 375-400whp is a number I came up with based on what I assume the car has when I bought it? And Yes, as I also stated, I "thought" I read where the tubular had made more power than the stock EM but perhaps it was the other way around, however as that was not really the route I was planning on going, I did not research it further. I am by no means an expert, hence the title of the thread and the questions inside of it. Now that I know the ported stocker is a viable option, at an even better price, it is something I will definitely look into.
And yes, did I not clearly state above, 375-400whp is a number I came up with based on what I assume the car has when I bought it? And Yes, as I also stated, I "thought" I read where the tubular had made more power than the stock EM but perhaps it was the other way around, however as that was not really the route I was planning on going, I did not research it further. I am by no means an expert, hence the title of the thread and the questions inside of it. Now that I know the ported stocker is a viable option, at an even better price, it is something I will definitely look into.
Jun 23, 2008, 07:00 AM
#14
Hey Tommy,
Dyno number varies from day to day weather and dyno to dyno and different correction factor. That dyno graph that you have there was from my original tune with 680cc injectors. I had to get a retune because we took out the 680cc. Whatever the reason was, I kept getting the system to lean CEL. Even driving normally. The tuner thought it was the injector or something so we took it off and retuned the car.
I was pretty upset about the torque lose after the retune but it did get rid of the tune. Im not familiar enough with tuning so I left it all to him to handle.
As for the clutch, if you try to make more power or torque you will need to upgrade the grabbing capability of it. The stock clutch is only good up to a certain limit then it will start slipping. Driving normally with that power will be fine but once you punch the throttle then that is where you will feel the slip.
Warrtalon: What kind of dyno did you use for your car and what was the correction factor? The dyno that was used was dyno dynamics with 1.2 correction factor I believe.
Ill try to call the tuner to see if they can email me the most recent dyno graph.
Dyno number varies from day to day weather and dyno to dyno and different correction factor. That dyno graph that you have there was from my original tune with 680cc injectors. I had to get a retune because we took out the 680cc. Whatever the reason was, I kept getting the system to lean CEL. Even driving normally. The tuner thought it was the injector or something so we took it off and retuned the car.
I was pretty upset about the torque lose after the retune but it did get rid of the tune. Im not familiar enough with tuning so I left it all to him to handle.
As for the clutch, if you try to make more power or torque you will need to upgrade the grabbing capability of it. The stock clutch is only good up to a certain limit then it will start slipping. Driving normally with that power will be fine but once you punch the throttle then that is where you will feel the slip.
Warrtalon: What kind of dyno did you use for your car and what was the correction factor? The dyno that was used was dyno dynamics with 1.2 correction factor I believe.
Ill try to call the tuner to see if they can email me the most recent dyno graph.
Jun 23, 2008, 07:17 AM
#15
DynoDynamics with no correction factor, which is 1.00. Wow, 1.2? You cannot tell people it's 350hp when the CF is 1.2. No wonder it's so high. That means it's only making 292whp/267wtq. That is a HUGE difference...
Why would it have such a high correction in Indy? I'm in Colorado at 6000', and our CFs are usually 1.26-1.32 due to how high we are. Indy isn't nearly that high, so the dyno operator must be inflating the numbers manually. Even when the CF is 1.26-1.32, we cut it in half for turbo cars to get a sea level comparison. For instance, my 325/342 would be 367/386 up here for trying to guess sea level numbers, but that's still just a guess. If I used 1.2 like you, it would be 390whp/410wtq! Lord have mercy!
Why would it have such a high correction in Indy? I'm in Colorado at 6000', and our CFs are usually 1.26-1.32 due to how high we are. Indy isn't nearly that high, so the dyno operator must be inflating the numbers manually. Even when the CF is 1.26-1.32, we cut it in half for turbo cars to get a sea level comparison. For instance, my 325/342 would be 367/386 up here for trying to guess sea level numbers, but that's still just a guess. If I used 1.2 like you, it would be 390whp/410wtq! Lord have mercy!
Last edited by Warrtalon; Jun 23, 2008 at 07:21 AM.