if your measuring 700lbs of lift then ur car shouldn't be on the street.... lol

 

Heh. I overlooked the example... 700 lbs of lift. The wonder woman invisible plane wing is actually on the roof. The Evo can actually fly if you maintain over 166mph!

 

i really doubt this is the case. this car has been tweaked over 8 generations, and raced with the same wing used on the street for most of that time. dig up any of the several good sources of info on the EVO through the years, and you will find out exactly when, how and why that wing has been modified over time. and it ain't so it'll look more *****en than those hondas parked at krispy kreme...

incidentally, i've finally made peace with my front canards for this same reason. i couldn't decide if i liked em or not, and some people have said, "trying too hard", "tacked on", or whatever about their looks. but i finally realized that most previous generations of evo have some sort of similar canard built into the front air dam. as the air dam has been downsized over that last couple generations, i think the canards have become neccesary to balance out the wing's downforce at the rear. no hard info from mitsu to back it up, but it seems very logical when looking at the different cars.

 

by the way, since nobody else has come up with a very good answer so far, i'll chip in here and refer you to this thread over at nasioc:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...t&pagenumber=1

skip down to the bottom post on that first page. that's simon lines, the prodrive rep for most of the planet, discussing the details of the wind tunnnel testing done by prodrive on their STi aero kit.

coupla reasons why this is relevant:

- prodrive builds and preps ALL of subaru's WRC cars, among many others.

- that STi aero kit is, like our aero parts, a nearly exact duplicate of that used in competition, designed by the company that builds the factory race cars (prodrive/ralliart).

- given the similarities between our cars, and the similarities between prodrive's kit and our factory setup (nearly identical, as is that on the new US STi), i'd be willing to bet that our numbers are pretty similar to what they're getting. not exactly, for sure. but as far as the general lift numbers, and the percentage of change for the Big Fat Wing and other add-ons, probably pretty close. those are numbers you can give your friends as a ballpark figure when they get wing envy.


and think about this- nowhere, but NOWHERE else are you going to see wind tunnel test results on various combinations of aero parts like this. very few companies can afford this kind of testing, probably none in the "aftermarket tuner" class of "body kit" fabricators.

so when you look at those numbers, and see just how easy it is to screw up your cars high speed handling badly enough to kill you, think about that next time you see some doofus buzzing around on the freeway with his cheep-o fiberglass goon units flapping around his wheel wells like an albatross on takeoff, and his rickety CF hood slapping the crap out of his *****en hood pins, begging to fly away, and his triple-triple with onions mondomegawing dragging down his *** end like a boat anchor.

just think about it, that's all. and maybe don't get too close to him...

 

I thought it was 140lbs @ 60mph. (70kg @ 100km/h)

But these are Evo 6 stats. If you have a 90% improvement, you should be getting 266lbs or so at the same speed

 

Actually, the STi aero kit is nothing like the competion kit. The WRC/SCCA cars have rear wings that stick further over the rear of the car as well as additional splitters on the WRC model. Also, the front bumper is completely different, dictated by the FMIC and Evo style exhaust vent on the hood. The fenders are also much wider than that on the stock car. If you look at the SCCA ProRally versions of the STi and Evo, you'll notice that the Evo is running with an almost completely stock aero package whereas the subaru car is based on a WRC bodyshell and has very little in common with the stock car.
rally evo:

stock evo:

rally STi:

stock STi:

 

man, you skip town for a few days, and look what happens...

er, ok, but i was really just pointing out the wind tunnel testing done by prodrive and its possible relevance for us, not trying to make a case for which rally car is more closely related to the street model.

however, the STi aero kit i'm referring to is the prodrive kit called the "STi aero kit", not the standard factory setup on the STi as pictured in your post. check out the "type prodrive" setup on the STi site for pix of the proper kit. the model shown on prodrive's site is of the latest model, not the one tested last year that i am referring to here.



now, off that subject, but regarding your opinions:

1) up until the last two seasons, that prodrive kit (or something identical) was indeed used on nearly all the factory rally cars. last season, for reasons i can't fathom (marketing?), SRTUSA switched to the stock rear wing and front fascia. apparently it sucked, cuz it's history now. the US rally team is back to using the same prodrive-style wing they used before, which is actually very similar to the stock wing on the new STi. you can see it in your own pictures. this season's US team is also the first to use the widebody, WRC style chassis. why that's relevant to a dicussion of aerodynamics, i'm not sure, but it does mean the front fascia is widened.

this season, the WRC car is using a very different wing than they've ever used before, and totally unrelated to that used by the US team. the front fascia is similar, but since they're using pretty much the same chassis now, that's to be expected. it's basically a widened version of the prodrive kit anyway.


if you can't see the similarities here:

STI type prodrive:



01 SRT USA car:


01 WRC car:



and you can't see the difference here:

03 SRT USA car:


03 WRC car:


and especially here:


then you certainly aren't going to see where the inspiration for this came from:

03 STi


and still, the point was just that prodrive actually tested their aero kit in a wind tunnel, and we could assume that their data probably applies to our cars in a general way.

g++

 

Your response is well spoken, but I am still unconvinced that the frontal aerodynamics of the WRC/ProRally car are really all that relevant to the production car. The front mounted intercooler with the associated exhaust vent on the hood means that the laminar flow of air over the car is significantly different than it would be on a production model.

If you go back a few years to TTE's Celica GT4, you will see that the ST185 was delayed for a year because the open hood scoop was terrible aerodynamically.. they went to a water-air setup and a heat extractor on the hood to both add cooling capacity and improve the aerodynamics of the car.

As a former WRX owner, I am very aware of the kit that you show in your post, in fact I lusted after it quite a bit But I believe that package is more for appearance than aerodynamics. The real aero package that the ProRally cars ran was the one that was developed for the UK Prodrive edition. It consisted of a rather unique looking rear wing with drooping winglets and a front lip. Since the thing wing didn't really look all that great I have no doubt that it was a very effective kit. I'll spare embedding such a large image, but you can see it rather clearlyhere

 

Sounds like your friend is talking out of his pucker hole.... Well, either that, or his downforce calculation is measured at 200MPH.

 

i have no idea jsut quoting what i was told, it's jsut a stock Saleen spoiler and i'm not familiar with Mustangs at all...

 

well, the thing is there is a trade off between lift and gas mileage and highway performance...

if they were to put a great big aggressive wing on the back it would really hamper top speed, accel at high speed, and gas mileage.

then they figure the average joe isn't gonna go throwing his evo around at 100+ where the downforce really starts to work, so for a streetcar there is very little advantage.

that said... the wing on the back of our evo is VERY small and flat compared to the stuff we run on our porsche race cars... the aerofoil itself is not very agressive, and the level (which is non adjustable) is nearly flat. altho porsches demand a large amount of rear downforce, the wings we run on those, even tame ones which actually come off road cars (the rs 3.8 wing is common in club racers)... well even the tamest of the real wings we run make this look like a purely cosmetic thing.

even our lotus motorsport (elise race car factory prepped by lotus) had a much more aggressive aerofoil.


see the prodrive aero kit... see the 3" piece of plastic in teh front... thats an air dam, thats what makes all the front downforce. it forces the air up and over the car and creates a low pressure underneath. the street car doesn't have this... read... no downforce in the front. not to mention that the prodrive has a front mount intercooler with a hood vent, so air is flowing from down low to the top, vs flowing in from the top and forced out teh bottom of the car...

 

right. ok, fair enough.

but like i said before, the original point was just the prodrive wind tunnel test numbers, which i found interesting.

come on, really:

do i think the production wrx/STi has much in common aerodynamically with the wrc-spec setup?
no, not neccesarily. you're dead right about the FMIC and front treatment. nobody's really arguing that except you. but that really isn't relevant. they still used the prodrive kit on the factory cars, in various forms. look at the pix. it's right there in front of us.


do i think the production wrx/STi has more in common aerodynamically with the evo than, say, a lotus motorsport elise or a porsche race car?
yes. pretty clearly.

so, what's the point? the test numbers posted by prodrive probably indicate what kind of lift/drag numbers our own cars produce. nothing more, nothing less.

try to read between the lines a bit here, guys. i'm not trying to ram any radical opinions down anyone's throat. just posting info. has anybody actually bothered to read the posting by prodrive? has anybody seen similar test results posted by any other credible sources?

"real aero package"? seriously, now. this thread really isn't about "my wing's bigger than your wing". just info.

really.


ps- you know, it's funny, i never noticed SRTUSA had used that new style prodrive kit you linked to- that's from lovell's car last season. that makes at least three completely different setups i've seen from last season alone. they were obviously having problems in that area. interesting that they're now using the wrc spec chassis, but with the old prodrive-style wing as used in wrc up until last year.

i don't think they think it's "more for appearance than aerodynamics"...

 

These cars are tested in a wind tunnel sideways, too. The spoilers do just as much to keep the car from spinning out as they do with any downforce. Look at the side panels of them, why are they so large? It acts like an air brake when the back end comes out of line. Don't beleive me? Then why does Mitsy, Subary, Ford, and numerous others use wings on their rally cars that have multiple vertical beams?


Josh

 

Actually the slats are there to keep air flowing over the wing as intended. By elongatint the path of the air over the wing (ie not going forward but sideways) they lose grip. The exact time you need to lose grip the least! SO the slats are their to force air to continue over the wing and maintain downforce.

 

In stock form, does the EVO even go fast enough (150+ mph) to really make good use of the wing? I'd gather that at most places on the track, speeds are considerably lower?