This would also apply when one goes to take off the head. So should one expect to warp their heads by simply unbolting some bolts to remove it....

Personally i'm not too concerned with swapping head bolts for studs. Simple swap and should not have any adverse affects. Rod bolts to studs is different though. Alot more attention to detail is required there. So far no one's blown the bottom end yet do to a rod bolt, so it's only speculation thus far. "it looks weak" doesn't cut it for me. Looks aren't always an indicator of strength.

Coolant in the oil is not the reason. Lose of oil pressure is. The oil light is hooked up to a pressure sensor and that's all it looks for is pressure. It could careless if there's coolant in the system.

 

You guys are talking about too many kinds of bolts in this thread. Let's stick to the head bolts since those are the ones that apparently need to be replaced/torqued-regularly if you're running any decent level of mods, because they apparently suck.

So if someone wants to mod safely, they should buy a set of aftermarket bolts from this APR place or whatever it's called and a new OEM head gasket and have the bolts put on and replace the gasket at that time to ensure it seals properly, YES?

 

Originally posted by n00dle

This would also apply when one goes to take off the head. So should one expect to warp their heads by simply unbolting some bolts to remove it....

Aluminum head it's not unheard of. You are also putting in a new gasket and checking the head for flatness first.

Personally i'm not too concerned with swapping head bolts for studs. Simple swap and should not have any adverse affects. Rod bolts to studs is different though. Alot more attention to detail is required there. So far no one's blown the bottom end yet do to a rod bolt, so it's only speculation thus far. "it looks weak" doesn't cut it for me. Looks aren't always an indicator of strength.

How are you going to clean the threads with the head on? Since fluid doesn't compress, how does the stud seat fully in the threads if there is oil or coolant in the hole. Rod bolts don't normally just fail, something else usually leads to it.


Coolant in the oil is not the reason. Lose of oil pressure is. The oil light is hooked up to a pressure sensor and that's all it looks for is pressure. It could careless if there's coolant in the system.

You didn't get my point on the oil thing. He posted that the blown head gasket cause the oil pump to fail. The blown head gasket cause coolant in the oil, which in turn damaged the bearings and caused the loss of oil pressure. coolant in the oil can wipe a bearing out in the matter of minutes. Too much clearance equals too much pressure loss.

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People can do whatever they want, I am just trying to inform them that what they read on the internet is not always good for them. I personally never did anything like this on a car and have never blown a motor either personally or in the 10 years I worked at a dealership did I ever have one come back.

 

To do it right, convert to studs. Yes remove the head and replace the gasket and check the head and deck for flatness.
The head bolts like most are torque to yield, which means they are torqued to a spec and then cranked down an additional amount of degrees which is stretching the bolt. Head bolts that are removed should not be reused because the are already stretched. The other issue is the proper torque when you convert to studs, hopefully ARP has already done this homework and provides this.

His problem is not because the bolts were ****ty, something else happened (most likely detonation) that took the bolts outside there expected operating range. Look around at the other Evos, I don't think Al has replaced his head bolts and he is making how much power, nitrous and all?

 

So, what holds the head to the block in stock trim are studs, right? Bolts would be a lot easier to replace, but this thread is getting a little confusing now.

Studs are harder to pull out and change because they do not have "heads" that you can turn with a ratchet...

 

Head bolts hold the head to the block. You would be removing the bolts and installing studs, which are generally stronger.
It is important that the threads are clean of oil and coolant and they should be chased with a thread chaser or tap if need be.

 

thanks!!!

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by timzcat
There is no good way to clean them out and is the only risk if it even is. Most looking at doing the conversions have a young motors at <20k miles, so grime shouldn't be an issue. A little oil in the hole is ok. Coolant in the hole is not good, but there shouldn't be any in there from removing 1 bolt at a time. The head isn't under combustion pressure to lift it up.

In the end people will do what they want, but it doesn't hurt to have discussions like these. Many of the things people will or have done I will never do. However stupid it may seem to do somethings, in the end it is of benefit to those on the sidelines watching and listening. Because it is at someone elses expense and experience if something doesn't work.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by n00dle

There is no good way to clean them out and is the only risk if it even is. A little oil in the hole is ok. Coolant in the hole is not good, but there shouldn't be any in there from removing 1 bolt at a time. The head isn't under pressure.



Some holes are exposed to coolant and will fill up with the bolts removed. It is not uncommon for some manufacturers to use sealant on certain bolts because they are exposed to a water jacket. A little oil is fine, you need to lubricate the thread anyway but enough to stop the new stud from fully reaching the bottom of a blind hole is a problem.

 

Yes some bolt holes are exposed to coolant passages with other mfg. like VW IIRC. Let keep this discussion in reference to the EVO's 4G63. So does it have a bolt hole exposed to coolant passages? Surely AMS would have mentioned it....

 

Don't know. But if I took the head off I know it would be real easy to make sure the holes are clean.

I don't think you are getting my point and just want to aruge with me so I am done with this thread. People can do whatever they want for al I care. Fair warning.

 

I see your point. I hardly call it arguing, just pointing out some things subject to questioning. It ain't all that bad.

 

When replacing head bolts with studs it is recomended to torque the new studs down with a dummy head prior to installing the new head gasket and replacing the head.

 

Hello Everyone. Been reading some posts. Very nice forum and attitude here. I will be buying and EVO shortly and wanted to say hi. I also have 10 years expierence in mechanics, machining and fabricating. When removing a head it is recomended to release the torque on the bolts in a certain pattern and a certain rate usually so the head does not warp on the way off the deck. 0 ft/lbs on one side and 100 on the other is not good usually. Just a comment. Have not worked the 4G63 yet but have done many others. Also have seen warped heads and decks. Look foward to being a part of your group.
Regards
Bill

 

Valid concerns for someone who's going to pull the head off, to loosen the bolts across the head to release tension evenly, but in this case they're only replacing bolts one at a time. Removing 1 bolt should not pose a threat to warping and less of a risk if you swap bolts starting from center outward. That way one side isn't holding greater torque to the other as it's gradually fastened down. So those considering the swap may want to start from the center first as opposed to a corner, since the clamping load of studs may be greater than the bolts it's replacing..