65 vs 90mm TB
Sep 8, 2008, 09:31 AM
#1
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65 vs 90mm TB
any body know what sort of power one would gain going with a ported TB and lets say a Q45.
is it really worth going that big on the TB.
turbo being used is not a 42r and the car will be built with time attack in mind.
we will be running a 4088.
anybody care to comment who has tried the 2
thanks
is it really worth going that big on the TB.
turbo being used is not a 42r and the car will be built with time attack in mind.
we will be running a 4088.
anybody care to comment who has tried the 2
thanks
Sep 8, 2008, 10:01 AM
#3
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The way I approach the "why'd you only go with a 65mm TB" question is....Buschur has proven a setup with their 65mm TB and 2.5inch piping can go mid 9's trapping 150's. Once I'm at that point, I'll look into bigger TB's. I'm using the BR 65mm TB now mated to a DI intake manifold, driveability is oustanding
Sep 8, 2008, 10:30 AM
#4
I switched to the q45 and I am very happy with it. From my novice eyes it is a very well put together throttle body and it is MASSIVE. Unfortunately I switched intake manifolds at the same time so can't say how it compares to a ported stocker which I had on before.
I can tell you, I got the car to idle absolutely fine without the IAC valve. Only thing you won't get is like starting at 1500 rpm and going down to warm the car up quicker.
With the q45 we ran 10.7 very easily just a couple weekends ago. I have zero complaints. Video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOEL7uGJIuc
My logic was, my intake manifold was made for this TB. Buschur found gains going from 2.5" to 3" keeping the existing 2.5" pipe work. So I figured, why not go to 3.5" (90mm)? Don't regret it at all and price can't be beat... $125 off ebay in mint condition.
I can tell you, I got the car to idle absolutely fine without the IAC valve. Only thing you won't get is like starting at 1500 rpm and going down to warm the car up quicker.
With the q45 we ran 10.7 very easily just a couple weekends ago. I have zero complaints. Video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOEL7uGJIuc
My logic was, my intake manifold was made for this TB. Buschur found gains going from 2.5" to 3" keeping the existing 2.5" pipe work. So I figured, why not go to 3.5" (90mm)? Don't regret it at all and price can't be beat... $125 off ebay in mint condition.
Sep 8, 2008, 10:33 AM
#5
Just to add, when you think about the size of the plenum of a typical after market intake manifold, I can't see how having a throttle body which matches the size of the plenum better would hurt even though the IC piping stays the same size.
Before Buschur's testing, I would have thought 3" TB plus 2.5" IC pipe would yield no gain. This was not true so I went 3.5" because of fitment to intake manifold, price, and no logical reason why it would hurt.
Before Buschur's testing, I would have thought 3" TB plus 2.5" IC pipe would yield no gain. This was not true so I went 3.5" because of fitment to intake manifold, price, and no logical reason why it would hurt.
Sep 8, 2008, 03:31 PM
#6
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crcain thanks for your input buddy..
you setup is very similar to mine.. we both running autronic and we both on 2.3.
The Q45 are cheap and i am sure they work great but, is it really worth all the hassle of tossing the ISCV just for a few ponnies..
What you reckon the diff would be, i dont even think 10hp between a Ported 65mm stock vs the q45.
Btw i am also running a kansai inlet as well...
I would love to test stock vs Ported 65 vs Q45... time money etc is the hold back..
if you consider the fact that you could get a Q45 cheaper than what a 65mm ported TB costs the Q45 is a great option, but then again buschur has run 9's with a 65mm...
you setup is very similar to mine.. we both running autronic and we both on 2.3.
The Q45 are cheap and i am sure they work great but, is it really worth all the hassle of tossing the ISCV just for a few ponnies..
What you reckon the diff would be, i dont even think 10hp between a Ported 65mm stock vs the q45.
Btw i am also running a kansai inlet as well...
I would love to test stock vs Ported 65 vs Q45... time money etc is the hold back..
if you consider the fact that you could get a Q45 cheaper than what a 65mm ported TB costs the Q45 is a great option, but then again buschur has run 9's with a 65mm...
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Sep 8, 2008, 03:42 PM
#8
It's hard to say, I went from Magnus Race and 63mm ported to the Kansai and q45. The car went just over a 0.5 point lean up top and I added a good amount of fuel back in to get the AFR where it should be. I deffo felt the difference power wise and to me the car felt more responsive as well. Impossible to say what made the difference though.
I've heard arguments of going too big on the throttle body can make the car feel jerky like it is too hard to let a small amount of air in, but I did not feel any change in this when making the switch.
The only issue I had is it took me a few months to order a 3.5" -> 2.5" coupler from Samco!
I've heard arguments of going too big on the throttle body can make the car feel jerky like it is too hard to let a small amount of air in, but I did not feel any change in this when making the switch.
The only issue I had is it took me a few months to order a 3.5" -> 2.5" coupler from Samco!
Sep 8, 2008, 03:43 PM
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Sep 9, 2008, 12:40 AM
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It's hard to say, I went from Magnus Race and 63mm ported to the Kansai and q45. The car went just over a 0.5 point lean up top and I added a good amount of fuel back in to get the AFR where it should be. I deffo felt the difference power wise and to me the car felt more responsive as well. Impossible to say what made the difference though.
I've heard arguments of going too big on the throttle body can make the car feel jerky like it is too hard to let a small amount of air in, but I did not feel any change in this when making the switch.
The only issue I had is it took me a few months to order a 3.5" -> 2.5" coupler from Samco!
I've heard arguments of going too big on the throttle body can make the car feel jerky like it is too hard to let a small amount of air in, but I did not feel any change in this when making the switch.
The only issue I had is it took me a few months to order a 3.5" -> 2.5" coupler from Samco!
ye i agree.. it hard to justify what made the diff Crcain, could it be the Kansai or the TB.
I am willing to put my money on the kansai
I reckon for now i am just gonna do the 65mm ported stocker and later on when i feel enthusiastic will try the Q45.
regarding cold starting your car with the q45 is it that bad??
where is your idling set at? I am sure once it warmed up there will be no issues and i prefer turbo cars to idle a bit higher as well.
thanks for your input...
Sep 9, 2008, 01:05 AM
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It's hard to say, I went from Magnus Race and 63mm ported to the Kansai and q45. The car went just over a 0.5 point lean up top and I added a good amount of fuel back in to get the AFR where it should be. I deffo felt the difference power wise and to me the car felt more responsive as well. Impossible to say what made the difference though.
I've heard arguments of going too big on the throttle body can make the car feel jerky like it is too hard to let a small amount of air in, but I did not feel any change in this when making the switch.
The only issue I had is it took me a few months to order a 3.5" -> 2.5" coupler from Samco!
I've heard arguments of going too big on the throttle body can make the car feel jerky like it is too hard to let a small amount of air in, but I did not feel any change in this when making the switch.
The only issue I had is it took me a few months to order a 3.5" -> 2.5" coupler from Samco!
ye i agree.. it hard to justify what made the diff Crcain, could it be the Kansai or the TB.
I am willing to put my money on the kansai
I reckon for now i am just gonna do the 65mm ported stocker and later on when i feel enthusiastic will try the Q45.
regarding cold starting your car with the q45 is it that bad??
where is your idling set at? I am sure once it warmed up there will be no issues and i prefer turbo cars to idle a bit higher as well.
thanks for your input...
Sep 9, 2008, 05:28 AM
#12
I live in the Caribbean its 30c all year long. But for cold starting at that temp it is great and idle is 1000-1100 rpm with no hunting. It's quite stable. Very easy to stabilize idle just with ignition timing when you don't have IAC.
Yes of course most of the gains are from the Kansai... impossible to tell what, if any are from the q45. However, I can say I've not found one negative with the q45.
Yes of course most of the gains are from the Kansai... impossible to tell what, if any are from the q45. However, I can say I've not found one negative with the q45.
Sep 9, 2008, 12:33 PM
#14
Also, here are some tips when installing this...
1. The little cylinder end of the evo throttle cable is a tad too big for the q45 throttle body. You will need to just carefully grind out a bit of material for the cylinder to slide in. I just used my Makita drill and the right sized bit and it worked fine.
2. One of the q45 cables is not needed because it is a switch for idle. All you will care about is the TPS potentiometer. It's very easy handling the wiring. Ideally you get a q45 off ebay with both ends of the connector for the potentiometer and then the TPS itself as well of course.
3. Blank the vacuum fittings off.
4. Make sure to measure your upper IC pipe. The 3.5" -> 2.5" samco reducer I got fit the q45 flawlessly, but man I had to work on getting the 2.5" side over my IC pipe. So study this well so you get a nice fit on for the reducer piece.
5. Order a nice t-bolt clamp for the throttle body. I totally forgot this and just did two worm clamps linked together and paid for it. One of the runs we did it blew off and I'm pretty sure it would have been a 10.4 or so had it not.
6. Pick up some gaskets from an Infiniti dealer. I think for any '93 Infiniti q45 throttle body gasket. Not 100% on the year check it out.
Also the HKS inlet with the long runners required us to move some stuff off the firewall to make room for it to get in. The IC piping fabrication was pretty easy as I happened to have some spare pipe with the right bend I needed.
Sep 9, 2008, 11:42 PM
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Make sure you pick one up off E-Bay with the bolts as the HKS intake does not come up with bolts for that.
Also, here are some tips when installing this...
1. The little cylinder end of the evo throttle cable is a tad too big for the q45 throttle body. You will need to just carefully grind out a bit of material for the cylinder to slide in. I just used my Makita drill and the right sized bit and it worked fine.
2. One of the q45 cables is not needed because it is a switch for idle. All you will care about is the TPS potentiometer. It's very easy handling the wiring. Ideally you get a q45 off ebay with both ends of the connector for the potentiometer and then the TPS itself as well of course.
3. Blank the vacuum fittings off.
4. Make sure to measure your upper IC pipe. The 3.5" -> 2.5" samco reducer I got fit the q45 flawlessly, but man I had to work on getting the 2.5" side over my IC pipe. So study this well so you get a nice fit on for the reducer piece.
5. Order a nice t-bolt clamp for the throttle body. I totally forgot this and just did two worm clamps linked together and paid for it. One of the runs we did it blew off and I'm pretty sure it would have been a 10.4 or so had it not.
6. Pick up some gaskets from an Infiniti dealer. I think for any '93 Infiniti q45 throttle body gasket. Not 100% on the year check it out.
Also the HKS inlet with the long runners required us to move some stuff off the firewall to make room for it to get in. The IC piping fabrication was pretty easy as I happened to have some spare pipe with the right bend I needed.
Also, here are some tips when installing this...
1. The little cylinder end of the evo throttle cable is a tad too big for the q45 throttle body. You will need to just carefully grind out a bit of material for the cylinder to slide in. I just used my Makita drill and the right sized bit and it worked fine.
2. One of the q45 cables is not needed because it is a switch for idle. All you will care about is the TPS potentiometer. It's very easy handling the wiring. Ideally you get a q45 off ebay with both ends of the connector for the potentiometer and then the TPS itself as well of course.
3. Blank the vacuum fittings off.
4. Make sure to measure your upper IC pipe. The 3.5" -> 2.5" samco reducer I got fit the q45 flawlessly, but man I had to work on getting the 2.5" side over my IC pipe. So study this well so you get a nice fit on for the reducer piece.
5. Order a nice t-bolt clamp for the throttle body. I totally forgot this and just did two worm clamps linked together and paid for it. One of the runs we did it blew off and I'm pretty sure it would have been a 10.4 or so had it not.
6. Pick up some gaskets from an Infiniti dealer. I think for any '93 Infiniti q45 throttle body gasket. Not 100% on the year check it out.
Also the HKS inlet with the long runners required us to move some stuff off the firewall to make room for it to get in. The IC piping fabrication was pretty easy as I happened to have some spare pipe with the right bend I needed.
Sweet for all the info buddy!!
thanks again you a legend.... and will post back when i am done.
regarding the bolts My HKS came with studs and bolts.
Last edited by Whoop_ass; Sep 9, 2008 at 11:48 PM.