o2 dump vs aftermarket o2, done yet?
Well; lots of people with the cheap chinese parts have had lots of problems out of them.
When we as a USA company works tirelessly to R&D a product to only have a cheap chinese knockoff come along and undersale is kind of discouraging. However; we do feel very confident in what we have designed and produced. And our O2 Housing has been proven over and over again.
We have data logs on not just one test vehicle but dozens that show our part makes power. Then along comes a newcomer with no proof no data to prove any claim. But I have yet to see any claim from this company that their product makes any power. Our product has been proven to produce 15-25hp on Other test vehicles not just the one you refer to. I would like to see some data to prove that any other O2 Housing makes power. Can you show me where any company has shown the Evo community the extensive data and proof that EPM has. We just didnt say we made 15-25whp, we proved it with data. And in the real world with over 100 EPM O2 units sold; time and again independent tuners/shops/dynos have shown similar hp gains. Our customer's don't lie if they like our product then it must make power, they have show us when they get tuned for our product just how much power it makes. yes; let's see some proof from the other product that it even makes power.
I doubt any FMIC will produce power, but they will help you retain power when the ambient temps rise, which causes a loss of power. But a FMIC give you power, I just don't think it will give you much if any additional power.
Check out our (EPM) original post about our product you will see data to prove our claims.
Also we feel we don't have to polish our product to make it look better, as Indy Evo has stated the quality of the welds shows just how much enthusiasm went into the product. We do take pride in our product and want to show-off our TIG welding. That shows the Evo community that we went the extra effort on our product. Our Turbine tube is almost 50% larger than the Ebay/Megan o2 housing. We use a 3inch tube with a very unique radius, there is no other O2 Housing like it on the market anywhere.
When we as a USA company works tirelessly to R&D a product to only have a cheap chinese knockoff come along and undersale is kind of discouraging. However; we do feel very confident in what we have designed and produced. And our O2 Housing has been proven over and over again.
We have data logs on not just one test vehicle but dozens that show our part makes power. Then along comes a newcomer with no proof no data to prove any claim. But I have yet to see any claim from this company that their product makes any power. Our product has been proven to produce 15-25hp on Other test vehicles not just the one you refer to. I would like to see some data to prove that any other O2 Housing makes power. Can you show me where any company has shown the Evo community the extensive data and proof that EPM has. We just didnt say we made 15-25whp, we proved it with data. And in the real world with over 100 EPM O2 units sold; time and again independent tuners/shops/dynos have shown similar hp gains. Our customer's don't lie if they like our product then it must make power, they have show us when they get tuned for our product just how much power it makes. yes; let's see some proof from the other product that it even makes power.
I doubt any FMIC will produce power, but they will help you retain power when the ambient temps rise, which causes a loss of power. But a FMIC give you power, I just don't think it will give you much if any additional power.
Check out our (EPM) original post about our product you will see data to prove our claims.
Also we feel we don't have to polish our product to make it look better, as Indy Evo has stated the quality of the welds shows just how much enthusiasm went into the product. We do take pride in our product and want to show-off our TIG welding. That shows the Evo community that we went the extra effort on our product. Our Turbine tube is almost 50% larger than the Ebay/Megan o2 housing. We use a 3inch tube with a very unique radius, there is no other O2 Housing like it on the market anywhere.
I have to agree.. The design and quality of the welds w/o polishing show the true craftsmanship of the EPM dump.. Comparing the EPM dump to anything sold on Ebay from china should not even be relevant IMO..
bottom line.. 2 of the 3 quickest and fastest Stock turbo Evo's run this dump.. proof again that it works very well!!!
We have data logs on not just one test vehicle but dozens that show our part makes power. Then along comes a newcomer with no proof no data to prove any claim. But I have yet to see any claim from this company that their product makes any power. Our product has been proven to produce 15-25hp on Other test vehicles not just the one you refer to. I would like to see some data to prove that any other O2 Housing makes power. Can you show me where any company has shown the Evo community the extensive data and proof that EPM has. We just didnt say we made 15-25whp, we proved it with data. And in the real world with over 100 EPM O2 units sold; time and again independent tuners/shops/dynos have shown similar hp gains. Our customer's don't lie if they like our product then it must make power, they have show us when they get tuned for our product just how much power it makes. yes; let's see some proof from the other product that it even makes power.
I'm not doubting that your product doesn't make power and I'm in no way affiliated with QTP so I'm not defending their product either. It's clear that your product is superior in terms of the amount of power you get from an o2 housing in comparison to the generic ebay o2 housing but again I'm defending the ebay parts reliability. I've never seen a picture and I can't remember hearing about that part in particular fail and I know there have been thousands of those sold.
Come on man, because a product is made in China doesn't mean it's quality can't meet or exceed the quality of something made in the US.
yes we can agree on lots of both of our statements..'
Intercoolers don"t make power. There is no way an intercooler can make power. It can lessen the effects of heat soaking, cool the charge temps better than a stocker, so ina way yes it can help Keep the power there from heating up, and blowing hot air. And we all know heat is a power robber. I guess it all depends on how you look at it.
I know lots of people complain constantly about the poor welds, poor metals on the Ebay/Megan o2 housing. And the cracking/warping; as I work in this industry I might be privy to a bit more information. A close friend has an Ebay/Megan Manifold and has twice had it crack on him.
And for your statement about Buschur's test with the Ebay O2. Take a very close look back at that test. Yes he made power with the Ebay O2; but he did not keep everything equal. Boost was increased, it was not held stable. In our test we held boost to the same baseline and after the install of the EPM O2 Housing. We have worked tirelessly to keep all variables constant in our testing. Boost was the same, testing conditions were replicated as best as was possible, fuel was the same, throttle position was the same, nothing was changed in our testing, except ofcourse the installation of the EPM O2 Housing.
Yes; Chinese Metals are inferior as a whole. I earn my living as a Metal fabricator, I know a little bit about metals. Chinese forged metals are inferior as the quality control just is not there. All you have to do is look at the stainless from China.
Now that is not to say an American company can compete against say the Megan Down pipe. For $159.oo no American Company can compete against that inferior metal but satisfactory product. When in the long run every American company goes belly up because we can't compete against sub minuimum wage in the neighborhood of $20.00/month pay. Some of us (EPM) compete with our design, and intitiative, and innovation; only to have a Chinese company come along and Somewhat copy what we are doing with a below cost price. This is a generalization and is not a direct comparison of any company mentioned in this thread. However; if we all keep buying cheap knockoff parts then where will we be in the future.
Chinese modification parts company's do little if any innovation or research. the performance market will eventually die off.
So yes any USA product will generally be a better part than any Chinese part.
They have to resort to polishing to have the general public overlook the welds. Think about how long it takes to polish a part to a high luster. It takes about an hour of labor. But if you are paying your labor $0.05/ hour then it is worth it to you to Hide your inferior welds and poor craftsmanship.
You can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig...lol....
Intercoolers don"t make power. There is no way an intercooler can make power. It can lessen the effects of heat soaking, cool the charge temps better than a stocker, so ina way yes it can help Keep the power there from heating up, and blowing hot air. And we all know heat is a power robber. I guess it all depends on how you look at it.
I know lots of people complain constantly about the poor welds, poor metals on the Ebay/Megan o2 housing. And the cracking/warping; as I work in this industry I might be privy to a bit more information. A close friend has an Ebay/Megan Manifold and has twice had it crack on him.
And for your statement about Buschur's test with the Ebay O2. Take a very close look back at that test. Yes he made power with the Ebay O2; but he did not keep everything equal. Boost was increased, it was not held stable. In our test we held boost to the same baseline and after the install of the EPM O2 Housing. We have worked tirelessly to keep all variables constant in our testing. Boost was the same, testing conditions were replicated as best as was possible, fuel was the same, throttle position was the same, nothing was changed in our testing, except ofcourse the installation of the EPM O2 Housing.
Yes; Chinese Metals are inferior as a whole. I earn my living as a Metal fabricator, I know a little bit about metals. Chinese forged metals are inferior as the quality control just is not there. All you have to do is look at the stainless from China.
Now that is not to say an American company can compete against say the Megan Down pipe. For $159.oo no American Company can compete against that inferior metal but satisfactory product. When in the long run every American company goes belly up because we can't compete against sub minuimum wage in the neighborhood of $20.00/month pay. Some of us (EPM) compete with our design, and intitiative, and innovation; only to have a Chinese company come along and Somewhat copy what we are doing with a below cost price. This is a generalization and is not a direct comparison of any company mentioned in this thread. However; if we all keep buying cheap knockoff parts then where will we be in the future.
Chinese modification parts company's do little if any innovation or research. the performance market will eventually die off.
So yes any USA product will generally be a better part than any Chinese part.
They have to resort to polishing to have the general public overlook the welds. Think about how long it takes to polish a part to a high luster. It takes about an hour of labor. But if you are paying your labor $0.05/ hour then it is worth it to you to Hide your inferior welds and poor craftsmanship.
You can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig...lol....
Last edited by Q@EvoPowerMods; Sep 15, 2008 at 10:35 PM.
I am getting a JM Fabrication o2 dump, they are top notch guys, so i am sure the o2 dump will be too. i am also getting a licp then getting a retune at CBRD. So dont count these guys out just yet, i will let you guys know how it does and looks when i get it.
Intercoolers don't make power. There is no way an intercooler can make power. It can lessen the effects of heat soaking, cool the charge temps better than a stocker, so ina way yes it can help Keep the power there from heating up, and blowing hot air. And we all know heat is a power robber. I guess it all depends on how you look at it.
I know lots of people complain constantly about the poor welds, poor metals on the Ebay/Megan o2 housing.
Yes; Chinese Metals are inferior as a whole. I earn my living as a Metal fabricator, I know a little bit about metals. Chinese forged metals are inferior as the quality control just is not there. All you have to do is look at the stainless from China.
Yes; Chinese Metals are inferior as a whole. I earn my living as a Metal fabricator, I know a little bit about metals. Chinese forged metals are inferior as the quality control just is not there. All you have to do is look at the stainless from China.
Poor jigging leads to warped flanges and misalignment of flanges
Crap metal makes for crap threads for the spring bolts
Poor porting makes for poor flow
Thin metal makes for poor durability
Crap metal makes for poor corrosion resistance
I spent about an hour and a half cleaning up the Megan O2 housing that I got. For $50 shipped though, it was almost worth it.
I can't even buy the flange to build my own for that price. Actually, I bought a Megan O2 housing just to cut the flange off of it to build my own O2 housing. The consistency between the two O2 housings was jsut not there either. Geometrically and construction wise, they were very different from each other. First one I got wasn't too bad for the port work but fit like crap. Second one was complete crap on the porting but actually fit well.
For those that got installed it themselves, do you have any tips, pics or a write up of some sort? Mine just came in and i plan on installing it this weekend, just wanna make sure that I'm doing correctly. Thanks in advance! By the way Q, great looking product, definitely does not look like a cheap knockoff! 
Budd
Budd
The JMF dump is looking pretty good. It is, however, the most expensive out of the bunch. I would like to go with the JMF, to match the JMF manifold I'm going with 
Last edited by MitsuJDM; Sep 17, 2008 at 06:36 AM.
It is the most expensive, but they are 15 mintutes away from me and i know they do top notch stuff. Jimmy and the crew are awesome ppl too. I ordered the dump and licp from them sunday and hopefully will have numbers what they add in around a month.
For those that got installed it themselves, do you have any tips, pics or a write up of some sort? Mine just came in and i plan on installing it this weekend, just wanna make sure that I'm doing correctly. Thanks in advance! By the way Q, great looking product, definitely does not look like a cheap knockoff!
Budd
Budd
We are glad you like the O2 Dump, it has to be tough to stand up to those winter temps. Only the best TIG welding will do for the 49th state...lemme know if you need any more info with the install. I emailed you this morning. Show us some pictures if you can.
So has anyone answered if this will actually make power withOUT changing any boost levels? I'm trying to see if the increase in power is due to just the change of the boost curve or if this product alone will increase power.
I want to see back to back, same dyno, same day, same tune and same boost curve. With as many variables being tossed around, it would be good to isolate the modification so we can see for sure.
I realize that this modification allows the boost to stabilize and that is one of its strong points, but I am just curious if the gains are due to changed boost levels alone.
I want to see back to back, same dyno, same day, same tune and same boost curve. With as many variables being tossed around, it would be good to isolate the modification so we can see for sure.
I realize that this modification allows the boost to stabilize and that is one of its strong points, but I am just curious if the gains are due to changed boost levels alone.
In our "EPM" testing we kept the Boost levels the same. After 100 EPM O2's sold I think by now it is a given that this product makes power, and not just increases boost levels. We had tried to work with GST on a comparison as you mentioned but never heard back from them. We have since then sold over a 100 units and have independent testing performed by Tuner Shops across the USA by Installing and Tuning these EPM customer Evos. If you want look through our Thread and see all the great results we have had.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=342112
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=342112
I can tell you that when we did the initial testing the boost was as consistent as we could make it. We were using a Profec B Spec-II boost controller and the settings did not change. We did not have a way to log actual boost, but we were able to log 2-byte load values from the ECU. These load values are calculated based on MAF readings and reflect changes in boost.
Load levels were within 3% load as I recall, which would equal to less than 0.2 psi max change in boost. As revs increased the load did raise slightly due to the efficiency increase resulting from the EPM O2 housing. This happened nearing 6000 RPM and is actually where the power gains began to taper down. This is because heat will still begin to build on the stock 16G in the upper RPM range and reduce power, and also because the WG is nearly fully closed and negating the gains the part can make in that area. Gains from the turbine side of the part were still there, but again minimal due to the heat.
That said, the notable gains realized in our testing were found in the areas where boost was consistent (within 5% load of baseline, or ~0.3 psi).
The plan is to install the EPM housing on my own car and do more testing on the actual production part. To be honest, the prototype was a bit rougher (literally) than the production piece since Q had to notch and weld the turbine pipe and create the unique profile that really fuels the power gains given by the EPM housing. We expect great results with this round of testing on the production part.
The best part is that I have the ability to log manifold pressure on my car via a JDM MAP sensor. I also use the ECU to control boost so we can better limit the boost levels based on RPM which we were not able to do previously. This will allow us to do more extensive testing, including:
Power gains (tuned and untuned with stable boost)
WGDC% changes (to evaluate efficiency changes)
Spool time and max boost at redline
Boost creep resistance
The current plan is to test this weekend, weather permitting. We will do our best to keep variables under control, but this is a real-world test and the install does take a few hours to complete so minor environment changes are expected. I will provide any needed environment values used for calculations to maintain data integrity.
Load levels were within 3% load as I recall, which would equal to less than 0.2 psi max change in boost. As revs increased the load did raise slightly due to the efficiency increase resulting from the EPM O2 housing. This happened nearing 6000 RPM and is actually where the power gains began to taper down. This is because heat will still begin to build on the stock 16G in the upper RPM range and reduce power, and also because the WG is nearly fully closed and negating the gains the part can make in that area. Gains from the turbine side of the part were still there, but again minimal due to the heat.
That said, the notable gains realized in our testing were found in the areas where boost was consistent (within 5% load of baseline, or ~0.3 psi).
The plan is to install the EPM housing on my own car and do more testing on the actual production part. To be honest, the prototype was a bit rougher (literally) than the production piece since Q had to notch and weld the turbine pipe and create the unique profile that really fuels the power gains given by the EPM housing. We expect great results with this round of testing on the production part.
The best part is that I have the ability to log manifold pressure on my car via a JDM MAP sensor. I also use the ECU to control boost so we can better limit the boost levels based on RPM which we were not able to do previously. This will allow us to do more extensive testing, including:
Power gains (tuned and untuned with stable boost)
WGDC% changes (to evaluate efficiency changes)
Spool time and max boost at redline
Boost creep resistance
The current plan is to test this weekend, weather permitting. We will do our best to keep variables under control, but this is a real-world test and the install does take a few hours to complete so minor environment changes are expected. I will provide any needed environment values used for calculations to maintain data integrity.
Last edited by TouringBubble; Sep 17, 2008 at 09:40 AM.
there is no such thing as Chinese QUALITY 
So has anyone answered if this will actually make power withOUT changing any boost levels? I'm trying to see if the increase in power is due to just the change of the boost curve or if this product alone will increase power.
I want to see back to back, same dyno, same day, same tune and same boost curve. With as many variables being tossed around, it would be good to isolate the modification so we can see for sure.
I realize that this modification allows the boost to stabilize and that is one of its strong points, but I am just curious if the gains are due to changed boost levels alone.
I want to see back to back, same dyno, same day, same tune and same boost curve. With as many variables being tossed around, it would be good to isolate the modification so we can see for sure.
I realize that this modification allows the boost to stabilize and that is one of its strong points, but I am just curious if the gains are due to changed boost levels alone.
Also, its not the PEAk HP gain that is the important part of the equation with the EPM dump.. Its how the car holds boost and makes power to redline with it vs. the standard 02 housings.. The spool up on 1 of our customer cars increased by almost 1000rpm also..
Last edited by AWD Motorsports; Sep 17, 2008 at 10:11 AM.