FPred vs FPgreen on 91 octane
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Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Mid-Hudson, NY
FPred vs FPgreen on 91 octane
Ok let me first make the disclaimer that these results where done on different days and with some parts changes and there was/is an issue with the car....
Ok I got that over and done with.
Had a local switch from a FPgreen to a FPred. This Evo is setup for Nasa Time Trial competition here in the Norcal region. It has been breaking records and setting FTD and winning almost every single event. It is also driven to and from the track and to work again on monday. It is very much a "race on sunday, work on monday" type of build.
This is the first FPred that we have tuned in the Bay Area so we where excited for the results. To be honest I didn't expect much gains over the Green on only 91 octane. I was wrong.
Both are at 25psi peak. However the FPred also added a Wilson Cal Spec V2 intake manifold and moved from Cosworth M2 cams to M3 cams. I am still impressed with the gains and how the FPred performed overall.
This setup maxed out the current power potential for the Nasa Time Trial class this Evo is in on 91 octane. Meaning it can't make anymore power or it will be illegal or more weight needs to be added. For it to do this on 91 octane, on a stock looking turbo, is just awesome.
Even more awesome is that there is more in it on 91 octane. When we switched to tuning it for 100 octane, I quickly realized we had a serious boost issue, possible boost leak, etc. The boost level would quickly fall off like a rock past 6000 rpm. We didn't have time to find/fix it this day but hopefully soon we will fix it and see the true potential of this setup.
That said, the owner and car went out the next day to Thunderhill raceway, beating everyone in his class by 8 secs and breaking the TTS track record by 3 secs, again, all in a street full weight Evo, running a 91 octane map, with a high flow cat.
Here is an overlay of the FPgreen on 91 octane (dotted lines) vs the FPred on 91 octane (solid lines)
I'm excited to see the true potential of this turbo once the problems are fixed on this car. Overall very impressed so far.
Here is a boost plot of the problem we where seeing on 100 octane, I wasn't kidding when I said the boost was falling like a rock.
Even with this issue the car made 404whp. (46 whp gains over 91 oct) I expect once the boost holds more we will see another 30whp or so. Which is amazing on our dyno on a stock frame turbo, with a high flow cat even.
Mods:
2006 Evo
Tanabe 2.75" downpipe
Cobb 3" catback
MilSpec 100 cell high flow cat
MilSpec Throttle body
Wilson/Indy Cal Spec V2 ported intake manifold
Denso 720cc injectors
Walboro fuel pump
Nisei Upper and lower intercooler pipes
FPred turbo charger (SteveSpec ported)
Titek tubular 02 housing
ETS 3.5" FMIC
Cosworth M3 cams (280/272)
HKS adjustable exhaust cam gear
Forge WGA
ARC airbox
GM 3 port boost solenoid
JDM 3 bar map sensor
ECU controlled boost
ECU map switching (91 and 100 octane)
Stock ECU
Stock Head
Stock short block
Ok I got that over and done with.
Had a local switch from a FPgreen to a FPred. This Evo is setup for Nasa Time Trial competition here in the Norcal region. It has been breaking records and setting FTD and winning almost every single event. It is also driven to and from the track and to work again on monday. It is very much a "race on sunday, work on monday" type of build.
This is the first FPred that we have tuned in the Bay Area so we where excited for the results. To be honest I didn't expect much gains over the Green on only 91 octane. I was wrong.
Both are at 25psi peak. However the FPred also added a Wilson Cal Spec V2 intake manifold and moved from Cosworth M2 cams to M3 cams. I am still impressed with the gains and how the FPred performed overall.
This setup maxed out the current power potential for the Nasa Time Trial class this Evo is in on 91 octane. Meaning it can't make anymore power or it will be illegal or more weight needs to be added. For it to do this on 91 octane, on a stock looking turbo, is just awesome.
Even more awesome is that there is more in it on 91 octane. When we switched to tuning it for 100 octane, I quickly realized we had a serious boost issue, possible boost leak, etc. The boost level would quickly fall off like a rock past 6000 rpm. We didn't have time to find/fix it this day but hopefully soon we will fix it and see the true potential of this setup.
That said, the owner and car went out the next day to Thunderhill raceway, beating everyone in his class by 8 secs and breaking the TTS track record by 3 secs, again, all in a street full weight Evo, running a 91 octane map, with a high flow cat.
Here is an overlay of the FPgreen on 91 octane (dotted lines) vs the FPred on 91 octane (solid lines)
I'm excited to see the true potential of this turbo once the problems are fixed on this car. Overall very impressed so far.
Here is a boost plot of the problem we where seeing on 100 octane, I wasn't kidding when I said the boost was falling like a rock.
Even with this issue the car made 404whp. (46 whp gains over 91 oct) I expect once the boost holds more we will see another 30whp or so. Which is amazing on our dyno on a stock frame turbo, with a high flow cat even.Mods:
2006 Evo
Tanabe 2.75" downpipe
Cobb 3" catback
MilSpec 100 cell high flow cat
MilSpec Throttle body
Wilson/Indy Cal Spec V2 ported intake manifold
Denso 720cc injectors
Walboro fuel pump
Nisei Upper and lower intercooler pipes
FPred turbo charger (SteveSpec ported)
Titek tubular 02 housing
ETS 3.5" FMIC
Cosworth M3 cams (280/272)
HKS adjustable exhaust cam gear
Forge WGA
ARC airbox
GM 3 port boost solenoid
JDM 3 bar map sensor
ECU controlled boost
ECU map switching (91 and 100 octane)
Stock ECU
Stock Head
Stock short block
Last edited by razorlab; Oct 7, 2008 at 10:57 AM.
Bryan - saw this on NCE thanks for the info even though it's not quite done yet.
What are your thoughts on the boost problem?
What does the boost plot look like for the 91 map?
Simple boost leak problem????? I'd be very surprised you let him beat on it in that condition.
I know some on the hp came from the other mods but i'm sure the RED will shine when compared to race gas #'s on the green.
What are your thoughts on the boost problem?
What does the boost plot look like for the 91 map?
Simple boost leak problem????? I'd be very surprised you let him beat on it in that condition.
I know some on the hp came from the other mods but i'm sure the RED will shine when compared to race gas #'s on the green.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 14,094
Likes: 1,092
From: Mid-Hudson, NY
Evolving Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 346
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From: Dallas, TX
/yawn.
Er I mean WOW I'm surprised!
But seriously. congrats to everyone on trusting the RED to give you better than you could hope for results. Congrats on the new records keep breaking them! 
I had a crappy weekend, stuff falling off the car, but on side note seems we're making about 418whp @spring pressure(20psi) 93oct
Er I mean WOW I'm surprised!
But seriously. congrats to everyone on trusting the RED to give you better than you could hope for results. Congrats on the new records keep breaking them! I had a crappy weekend, stuff falling off the car, but on side note seems we're making about 418whp @spring pressure(20psi) 93oct
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 14,094
Likes: 1,092
From: Mid-Hudson, NY
Possible boost leak. He installed everything the night before, finishing at 3am. Had no time for boost leak test. Also possible bad WGA. The forges usually hold a shiat ton of boost, with less than 100% WGDC. I had to run 100% WGDC here for it to hold any decent boost at all. Preload was max as well
Not bad, but of course it's tapering by design because of our wonderful 91 octane
Wasn't the best solution but all seemed ok on the 91 tune and that is what he had to run to stay legal so I wasn't too concerned.
Not bad, but of course it's tapering by design because of our wonderful 91 octane
Wasn't the best solution but all seemed ok on the 91 tune and that is what he had to run to stay legal so I wasn't too concerned.
I really wanted a RED
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^^^it's on it's way 
btw, the car worked great and i didn't notice the difference in spool at all out on track. on the street it feels a touch more lazy, but once the rpm's climb it's night and day vs. the green. it just keeps pulling.
here's a little pic of the car at the track this weekend...
btw, the car worked great and i didn't notice the difference in spool at all out on track. on the street it feels a touch more lazy, but once the rpm's climb it's night and day vs. the green. it just keeps pulling.
here's a little pic of the car at the track this weekend...
Last edited by smack_evo; Oct 7, 2008 at 12:47 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 14,094
Likes: 1,092
From: Mid-Hudson, NY
I've tuned a couple 9's who have moved from M2's to M3's and none of them have gained much peak hp, but they have all gained torque. The only difference between the M2 and M3's for the 9 are the intake cam (280/272 compared to 272/272)
The intake manifold I have no data on since this is the first one I have tuned and it was done with the turbo but I am sure it helped with the pull out the top and will hopefully show more gains once we get the issues sorted.
30 hp on 91 with a cat and some issues is good in my book. On 100 it has gained almost 60whp over the green so far, even with the boost falling.
The 46whp difference between the 91 map and the 100 map was good for 1 full sec a lap at the track. (He switched to the 100 map on a non-event session to see what it would do)
Also one thing to note is he was running the 91 map with 100 in the tank which sacrifices some power of the 91 map since the car runs richer. I saw about a 10whp loss on the dyno running the 91 map on 100 octane.
The intake manifold I have no data on since this is the first one I have tuned and it was done with the turbo but I am sure it helped with the pull out the top and will hopefully show more gains once we get the issues sorted.
30 hp on 91 with a cat and some issues is good in my book. On 100 it has gained almost 60whp over the green so far, even with the boost falling.
The 46whp difference between the 91 map and the 100 map was good for 1 full sec a lap at the track. (He switched to the 100 map on a non-event session to see what it would do)
Also one thing to note is he was running the 91 map with 100 in the tank which sacrifices some power of the 91 map since the car runs richer. I saw about a 10whp loss on the dyno running the 91 map on 100 octane.
Last edited by razorlab; Oct 7, 2008 at 12:57 PM.
hey bryan i thought we pulled back a little on the 100 map for extra safety and we went down to 398.
still a nice 40whp bump over 91 with that mess of a boost curve. i knew i shouldn't have buttoned that thing up so late.
that's what i get for wrenching at 3:30 in the morning
i'll get it sorted this week and maybe we can sneak back on the dyno for some tweaks.
still a nice 40whp bump over 91 with that mess of a boost curve. i knew i shouldn't have buttoned that thing up so late.
that's what i get for wrenching at 3:30 in the morning
i'll get it sorted this week and maybe we can sneak back on the dyno for some tweaks.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 14,094
Likes: 1,092
From: Mid-Hudson, NY
You made more peak but lost a bunch under the curve. The 398 would have been a faster evo but didn't feel comfortable leaving it there with not knowing what the issue was.
oh cool, thanks. that's why you make the big bucks, and why i never have to worry about my motor while i'm on track
i was probably still sleepy when you told me
i was probably still sleepy when you told me
Last edited by smack_evo; Oct 7, 2008 at 01:33 PM.