mac_05evo

iTrader: (20)

Ok so we've got a bit of a dilemma with my brother's Evo IX and am in need of some advice.

A little background info. The car had a 2.3L stroker put in it by a certain shop back around the beginning of August. It was properly broke in, no boost for 800 miles followed by an oil change. It was then returned to that shop to have the injectors installed and to be tuned on pump gas. The car made some decent power but later that day started making a knock/tick coming from the engine. It was towed back to the shop and was not driven at all after the noise started.

The motor ended up having to come back out (said a oil squirter was clogged up and caused it to break the #1 wrist pin causing the piston to slap around). Since the motor was back out and the head was off my brother decided to have them toss in cams and valve springs. He was quoted $200 to do this since the head was already off and what not. Anyhow, he gets a call today from this shop saying it's going to be an extra 2 hrs labor ($200) because the cams are too aggressive and for it to even be driveable they're going to have to flash it so it will not be too lean. Now we're not talking any WOT tuning or anything, they're simply trying to say it will be too lean under NORMAL DRIVING conditions and that they won't release the car til this has been done. Personally, I think it's a load of crap and they're just trying to get more money out of us. I've never heard of cams causing a car to be too lean to even drive. Any opinions? The cams are Kelford 280/272s btw.

This entire build has been nothing but a nightmare from the start and we've already spent THOUSANDs of dollars. We were quoted a price for the build when it originally started, it ended up being about $800 higher. It was payed and nothing was said, but this has just gone too far. The shop is being kind enough to fix the motor free of charge but in my opinion they should when you spend that kind of money and it blows up 2 weeks later under normal driving conditions.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the long post.

1d10t

iTrader: (19)

Whats the shops hourly rate? Those cams are definitely aggressive and would need a tune to safely be used. If I ran the shop Id flash it for free to make up for My mistake with your engine. They obviously have mediocre customer service at best.

mac_05evo

iTrader: (20)

$100/hr. I know it needs to be tuned before it sees any boost or WOT pulls and what not I just don't see why it would require one for normal off boost driving. We're not talking a full tune here they want $200 to flash it and make it driveable is what they're saying??

mugen777

iTrader: (16)

well even if so... I don't think 200 bucks is worth a quick reflash for how much money you have already spent... I have heard/seen people drive a few hundred miles on aggressive cams with no real tune... but to each his own.. Goodluck with the situation Mac... Maybe tuner X in GA will help you out... let me know the turn out

mac_05evo

iTrader: (20)

Thanks man. But like you said I've saw tons of ppl install cams themselves then drive around or what not until they get it tuned. Even back when I had my 280 cams installed on my 8 I drove around for a couple weeks waiting on my Xede to come in (at the time there was no such thing as ECUFlash).

Juan Martinez

iTrader: (1)

I've heard stories from my friends that are like this. Its always something with these performance shops. It either takes too long, they brake something, its going to cost more (at this point, your car is in pieces and your car is stuck there unless you tow it) and after they do it, it doesn't work right. Its all a bunch of BS. As much money as you spend, you would amost have saved enough for an extra engine to start building on yourself. If that didn't work out and it broke, you still have your old. If it did work, sell your old motor and get most of your money back. It doesn't cost as much to drop in a new motor as to them tearing down a motor and installing performance parts. At least I don't think it does, should be quicker.

justboosted02

iTrader: (31)

cams need a tune.

or else it probably wont idle and it will deff stall everywhere you go.

however, any shop worth anything should be able to make those adjustments in about........ 5 minutes

evoguy69

iTrader: (3)

lots of guys install stuff themselves and drive around town w/o a tune.i would not under any circumstances put a load of money in parts and then not have it tuned properly,oh wait a minute i did do that on my sti (perrin fmic,rotatedgt40r,lots of supporting mods)this car had a performance tune from a cobb programmer but not a tune for my particular setup.leaned it out ballooned the cyl. moral to story spend the extra bucks and always get tuning when you change your setup.

mac_05evo

iTrader: (20)

That's kind of beside the point now, the motor is already back in and almost complete (2nd time around of course). All they lack is putting the oil pan back on and buttoning up miscellaneous other things. I'm not really competent enough to have pulled the motor and stuff from the get go though lol.

mac_05evo

iTrader: (20)

You're not understanding what I'm trying to say. I KNOW the car needs to be tuned for WOT and even part throttle. I just don't see why it would be running too lean to drive from a cam swap under normal driving? Even if it is, it takes what 5 minutes to hook up a tactrix cable and add 10% fuel across the board?? He's not going to be beating on the car at all until it's properly broken in and tuned.

For example when I did my 35R turbo kit on my old Evo I drove it around for probably a month before I was able to get it tuned due to the shop being backed up. I just stayed out of boost though and putted around in it until it was tuned. I did the same thing when my HKS 280s initially went into my car way back in the day before ECUFlash was even available and I was waiting on my XEDE to come in. So I don't see why they're trying to say it's any different on this car??

justboosted02

iTrader: (31)

are you using the stock ecu?

mac_05evo

iTrader: (20)

Yes. The car WILL be tuned fully once it's broken in again. I just don't see the point in paying $200 now so it will supposedly run correctly and then having to turn around and pay another $3-400 800-1000 miles down the road.

Nad1370

iTrader: (1)

Every shop has their own policy.
"They" are just trying to cover their backs in case something breaks down.

Two things you can do.
1. pay up and get a tune. The work would be then covered in case something happens.
2. no tune. drive the car the way it is and sign off on a document that you are responsible if the engine somehow blows up. So they can release it to you.

Since you've done a lot of work with them. Maybe give you some kind of break on the tune.
"They" seemed to be a responsible shop to cover the piston slap issue. Did they charge you for that?
.

mac_05evo

iTrader: (20)

It's not a matter of the $200 being a lot of money or something I simply feel they've taken it too far and are trying to take advantage of my 16 year old brother. They are not charging for the motor work this time around but like I said when you spend close ~$8k on a motor (that they said they would stand behind) and labor and it starts knocking a few hours after they tune it would you expect to pay for it to come back out? Not only that but since it's been down the second time it seems like it's just been pushed to the backburner.

When the car was towed back in, they immediately took off the oil pan and said the crank and bearings were defective. Both were replaced with brand new parts and then they fired it up, still made the ticking/slapping noise. They then thought it was something to do with the MIVEC head and said to give them a few days to track down the problem. 3-4 days went by and they then pulled the head and discovered the #1 wrist pin to be broken. It then took nearly 3 weeks to get the one JE piston. Like I said the entire thing has just been a total nightmare from the beginning. It's been in the shop solid since the last week of July with the exception of the week and a half it was out in mid August before it blew up again.

mac_05evo

iTrader: (20)

The whole situation just really irks me. Not only have we spent a ton of money this time around but even when I had my Evo, I would always take my car there for work (cam install, XEDE, multiple retunes, 2 clutch installs, a new ACD and install, etc) and spent countless dollars as well with them. I've never said one bad thing about this shop to anyone and always referred people their way. I have to admit after this whole ordeal though, I'll probably never take another car their way again.