I'm wondering if there is anything in the works for some larger A/R hotsides for the stock frame turbo's. With as much boost that is pushed through these turbos, I'd be willing to bet there would be good gains to be had in this. Especially with the turbines being larger in the Green and especially the Red, there probably wouldn't be much sacrifice in spool with as much air as they're moving. With the ported head guys, maybe not a difference at all. Would there be any way to get say a 12cm hotside for the factory twinscroll or maybe a shop that someone could recommend to have the hotside machined out to this size?

 

It's funny, now that my Red is sitting on my table I started to think the same thing. I'm sure we'll just get a simple and easy "NO" to your question but it would be nice.

 

correct me if i'm wrong but i think the FP red uses the 10.5 turbine housing....so your best bet would probably be to port the hell out of the 10.5 housing....thats the only option i can think of unless you get a t3 turbing housing that will work with the stock, green or red turbo....and a t3 manifold....if i had a red i would just port it to THE MAX!! and port the stock manifold to THE MAX! or get a tubular manifold....

 

that's another idea. I'll have to talk to my local shop to see about porting the hotside.

 

are you look for more flow up top or what is it your looking for?

 

FP_RED with stock non-ported turbine housing. Then FP_RED ported showing the difference between our FP_GREEN and our FP_RED 'sizing', using inside mic.
Stock FP_RED


Ported with comparison to our GREEN "SIZE".

 

9sec9, have you ported that by yourself?

 

First off, "porting the hell out of it" won't do anything to increase the AR or help flow through the scroll. Secondly, with a larger turbine wheel such as the Red uses, backpressure will be reduced on the hotside in much the same way that a larger AR housing would help. Anyone who has owned a DSM with a bolt-on turbo will tell you how far a stock sized hotside can be pushed when you shove big enough wheels into them, and the EVO hotside is much larger than the 7cm housing that was used on most old skool bolt-on DSM turbos.

Just take a look at the power that the Red has already made compared to an HTA3076R in a T3 housing. Same compressor wheel, Red has a larger turbine wheel in a smaller (but twin scroll) housing. It has already proven to make as much power or more while spooling faster and not dropping off up top. I think going forward, if there are bolt-on options larger than the Red, we'll start seeing custom cast housings to work with it, much in the same way that the old 7cm was "good enough" for awhile, then we saw the PTE, FP, and BEP castings push the envelope later on.

 

dammnit. I need this thing ported. I wonder if I can just send my Red out to Buschur to be ported.

 

Buschur ported mine

 

I totally hear what you are saying and I understand that the larger wheel will reduce backpressure and that it may be "good enough". BUT.....why DON'T we start pushing the envelope. I would LOVE to see what a 12cm housing would do up top for some of the stock, green, and red guys. I would think there would be enough interest in this to warrant someone to start manufacturing some housings. This could be another "budget" alternative especially for the stocker guys to get more power up top. I could see the green and red variants benefiting quite a bit from this as with the air they are pushing through the wheels, this would help make a much more efficient turbo in the end....

Maybe FP could chime in?

 

I totally hear what you are saying and I understand that the larger wheel will reduce backpressure and that it may be "good enough". BUT.....why DON'T we start pushing the envelope. I would LOVE to see what a 12cm housing would do up top for some of the stock, green, and red guys. I would think there would be enough interest in this to warrant someone to start manufacturing some housings. This could be another "budget" alternative especially for the stocker guys to get more power up top. I could see the green and red variants benefiting quite a bit from this as with the air they are pushing through the wheels, this would help make a much more efficient turbo in the end....

Maybe FP could chime in?

 

Yes, he did.

 

the standard non ported housing looks different in the turbine outlet now. We added a CNC mill stage to the process where it goes in and adds a big long smooth outlet instead of that little ridge, about 50% of the outlet is now CNC machined in a long smooth radius in the CNC mill. So even the non ported ones are partially CNC ported.

We also now offer a full ported housing option that is more than the early "gasket match" job we offered in the begining, there are pics of it here:

http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...=Turbo-Porting

On the topic of larger turbine housings from MHI, there are not any larger than the 10.5cm2 . MHI made 9.0, 9.8 and 10.5 only, then they stopped making the car so MHI stopped making parts

 

One word - MONEY. It costs tens of thousands of dollars to tool up a casting and put it into production, and that's not counting designing it. It takes awhile for the market to mature to the point where it's going to be profitable for someone like FP to start making their own housings. As I said, the DSM crowd used the standard 16g style 7cm housings on 20g, Frank series, Green, and Red (some Reds used 8cm housings) for a looong time before the vendors saw enough demand for a custom casting.

I don't think it'll take as long in the EVO world, there's already a built in market for big power turbos that'll bolt on, but the question is how many? Let's say a Red style turbo with a custom cast bolt-on housing costs $2299 (assuming $500 over what the Red costs for the cast housing), you're getting nearer to what a T3 style kit costs. As for something to use on a stock turbo, there's already the 10.5 hotside, which is probably about the point of diminishing returns for a 16g wheel. If a custom hotside cost $500, I'd sooner put that money into a BBK lite or FPWhite conversion.

I think if FP were to chime in, they wouldn't offer anything in terms of what they're working on anyway. If they already have a project like this in the works, the last thing they want is to have a new thread every day bashing FP for taking too long. They also wouldn't want their competitors to find out what they're up to.