Just wanted to bump this data point in case it got lost between all the **** stirring..

 

Bryan, one quick question. On the boost logs comparing the BBK and the Green and the 100% duty cycle at 6k. Why does the green primarily hold in the 23.5-24 range until 6k, then it appears to increase the boost, whereas with the BBK, the boost is higher down low in the rpms, then is dropping at 6k? I would have thought that the Green was capable of making peak boost around 4k and then hold it for a bit, then drop similarly to the BBK. It seems odd that the boost actually began increasing on the Green. That would seem to indicate that the Green COULD have had higher boost at lower rpms. Am I missing something or is that they way you see it too.
Added: The up and down areas of the Green lines is what I'm referring to. Is that the ecu controlling the boost? If so, it appears as though as it rises, it's pulled back down, then back up, then down and finally rising to a higher 25 psi by 6200 or so.

 

I think you are looking at the wrong plot for the green. The BBK is the first chart with the solid blue line. The FPgreen is the second chart with the orange solid line. I had labeled them as well in the original post.

The green boost plot is off a mitsubishi 3bar map sensor that is not smoothed on data logging, it is jagged because of this. It's even more jagged in evoscan/DLL, I put smoothing on in excel. Error correction was never induced on either cars.

It was logged on the dyno as well (just like the BBK). I'll do a overlay with both logs from the dyno MAP sensor when I get some time to lessen the confusion.

 

The term BBK,solid line on the first chart threw me off. I assume the hyphenated line is something irrelevant then. The fall off of this green is something completely different than I've experienced, even with an mbc. I reviewed 7 or 8 runs with the worst case scenario being at the track in Shreveport when we had a leaking intake manifold. Even then, the Green went from 28.8 peak in 3rd gear at 6093 rpms and falling off to 24 psi at 7800. That's quite a difference. I still feel that something is amiss with the Green backpressues on this particular car. Just my opinion.

Just curious. What is the hyphenated line represent in the BBK plot?

 

That's fine. You have data from your personal evo. Like I said in the original thread that this whole new thread sprouted from is that this particular BBK has held more boost than any green we have had through the shop, and we have had over 20.

Example, on my personal Evo 8, my FPgreen can hold 24 if I want it to.

On the next evo with a BBK, maybe it will hold less or more?

As you know, boost is only a part of the power equation. Here is an example.

Here is a Evo 9, FPgreen, holding more than the above FPgreen, but it made significantly less power. (367whp)



here is a stock turbo holding 24psi to 8000 rpm in 3rd and 4th gear. Did it make more power than the Green we are talking about? No. (364whp)

3rd gear:


4th gear:


One of the 91 oct pulls.

 

Guess that's why we have so many tuners and ideas of how to make power. This just proves that you can put the parts in the hands of a mechanic, but it takes more than wrenches to make it all work. Thanks for info but still too many things may not be the same, ecu settings, porting, exhaust differences, cam timing on the Mivec. Just pointing out how minor things can make a difference to results. I also have tuned several IX's and VIII's at the track and only have et results, not much in the way of printouts, unless you count the et slip.

 

While this might be true, they are MUCH closer than the two cars you tried to compare at the beginning of this thread, where both cars where across the country from each other, on two different fuels, two different tuners, two different ecus, two different dynos, two different years of evos, and other things.

You even said it yourself above:

How you can say that but start a thread like this blows my mind.

I'm done putting any effort into this thread with any data and or replies. It's just going to go back and forth until nothing is achieved and it's a waste of my time. It's a horrible thread. In all honesty I was a bit disappointed you of all people started it with such horrible and desperate lack of data and similarities.

Hope you have a great 09.

 

We did get results. I've done as many back to back comparisons as just about any non-shop, evo owner. I've done enough to understand the importance of details. Your comments kept going back to 'what you've done' on the dyno, yet the fact still remains in spite of the differences in the different dynos, days, builds, tunes, parts, boost control, the two dyno plots still were not that far dissimilar. What was dissimilar was the boost being 'held' by each turbo and that was my original point. Some concentrated on the obvious, and not the details, others picked up on the details and brought them out. You're right about one thing, higher boost doesn't necessarily make more horsepower. It takes good tuning and parts. Again, the devil is in the details.

 

The devil is in this thread, let it die...

 

You contradict yourself so much you're not even sure if you carried out a good or bad test.

Basically you posted this thread to show about boost control, or that you thought a product was better, or that you thought you found a metric through some semi-related testing and failed.

Scorke

 

Scorke, I still await anything positive in your posts. Maybe you could provide something meaningful, either through results you've had, or through ANY back to back testing. You're the ultimate keyboard warrior. That is less meaningful than starting a thread that at least encourages discussion.

 

What exactly did the other runs w/o the leaky IM reveal as far as holding boost on your particular Green-equipped IX, Tom?

 

The difficult part sparky, was the gear changes and boost dropping, then building back up. The other runs showed higher peak boost at 6000 and if I recall correctly, 25+ psi at 7800. I was flying through the logs, looking specifically for long 3rd gear pulls, since I believe that was the comparison. I'll look again and PM you the data. I'm not too sure that any of these details are worthy of posting.
added: I can say without reservation that Mivec tuning CAN have a major affect on the boost holding abilities, and of course combustion pressures.

 

OFF TOPIC: BUT VERY ON POINT!

I sit here and read these threads, a lot, and never remark to anything you say because it would be stooping to your level... However, I'd like to boldly point out that you never seem to have anything positive to say nor to contribute that would encourage a good discussion. Referencing countless threads where you waste bandwidth with your biased negative comments only goes to say what kind of person you are and what type of life you lead behind the keyboard and screen. So instead of trying to make sense of the things you say at the times you say them I'll regress... and actually feel bad for you.... Karma is a mother ****er.

 

There is so many variables involved to definitively prove one turbo is better than another very similar turbo. The only way I can see to get any good info on this comparo is to ask the tuners whats getting them the best results. 9sec9 runs a ten, the next person runs a 12 with the same parts. 9sec9 I bet you'd be real close to the same et with a bbk.


That said "facts" about which turbo may or may not be marginally better on tuesday march 5, 2008 with 80% humidity at 85' F and a low dewpoint at 4500' elevation with the same metals struck by God himself to make parts free of impurities and any differences and fuels pumped and refined then stored in the same barrels on the samecar same dyno......yadda yadda yadda makes no real difference in the end. I don't think this kinda has a purpose til I here anyone say," Mother ****, I wanted 405whp and get 397whp I should have got the green (OR bbk)!!"


That said I've been sourcing some parts for a 400whp build on my gf's 08 GTI and its just a bit different market than what we've got here to say the least. ko4 or 30r are about the turbo options.


There is no arguing that these turbos are both phenomenal in performance and on the same level. I think its verification that of the quality parts and tuners we have available to use in the mitsu community and thats the reason I can't think of owning any other car for the money, evo is totally in its own league.

Also this thread really 'reads like a shamless fanboi FP plug' to an average forum member like me.