Why do you keep bringing up a EBC? If that is reference to the ECU-controlled boost on the BBK we tuned that is not a "EBC" in sense of it being a AVC-R, etc like Boltz talked about above.

It is a solenoid controlled by the ECU. In most instances, more robust than aftermarket EBC's in their control. Let's not turn this into a yet another MBC vs ECU-boost thread however.

Here are two points of data from a BBK using ECU-controlled boost and a FPgreen using ECU-controlled boost (both using GM 3 port solenoids).

This boost data was from the session where the BBK was producing 427whp/376wtq and the FPgreen was producing 403whp/378wtq. Both where evo 9's with M2 cams, TBE, FMIC, turbo porting, stock maf and stock ECU. Both are outputting the highest I've seen on our dyno so far, for their respective turbos.

The only reason I am posting this data is it backs up my claims that have been quoted here from the BBK thread I posted saying that the BBK held more boost on this 9 than any FPgreen on a 9. *both of these are running 100% duty cycle 6,000 rpm+

BBK, solid plot:



FPgreen:



**I'm sorry I don't have the latest plots from both these cars (which both make more power now, reference in the dyno plots I posted earlier in this thread) and I'm sorry I don't have the same visual type of plots. I lost my pencil so I can't overlay them currently.

 

He's referring to a ball and spring style of boost controller that is 100% duty cycle until it exceeds the spring's rating. Hence when boost falls below the spring pressure the actuator see's no boost.

 

OT: Yeah, I saw that. It is hilarious. How do they come up with the tags?

Ok, back on topic

 

Click on "Edit tags" in the bottom right and you can add your own.

 

Ah I see. So let's say the spring in the ball/spring MBC does not get overwhelmed until 25 psi, and you peak at 30 psi, then the MBC goes 100% duty cycle in a sense as soon as the turbo bleeds down to less than 25 psi. Makes sense got it.

 

Here's my contribution to this amazing, TLDR, informative, awesome thread:



Oh and ibtl

 

Because since the ecu is electronic, it IS a form of electronic boost control. It's easily seen in many of your dyno plots. Also, that was directly related to 'holding boost' up top. This has been discussed and sorry, but since I did start the thread and had my reasons. Many non-posters in this thread know what I'm working on, and it DOES relate.
That's ok too. I heard California only had red ink and any attempts to buy pencils would be construed that the left coast had begun to buy sharp pointed weapons and would be outlawed. You're excused.

Bryan, now back on topic, are you saying that the ecu is better than all other boost control systems on the Evo (not being funny or underhanded here) or just the best bang for the buck.

 

In seeing all the dyno chart info Bryan has posted (both here and on NorCalEvo), ECUboost w/GM 3-port has resulted in better results than MBC's on stock-based turbos. But Bryan doesn't want this to turn into an MBC vs. EBC thread, so forget I mentioned it.

 

Yes I understand that but the term "EBC" means something different to most people than "ECU-controlled boost".

Actually all the Oakland rioters stole all our pencils.

It depends on the application and yes of course, it's cheap. It comes with the car already and is included in the tune (just like turning a knob on a MBC or tweaking the dial on a EBC). As far as comparing it to aftermarket EBCS, the only EBC *I have used* that is most like the ECU-controlled boost is the latest HKS EVC. The apexi AVC-R is a second but has it's flaws, some of which boltz talked about above. Both the EVC and AVCR are rpm based duty cycle controllers. (like ECU-controlled boost)

Most aftermarket EBC's are glorified MBCs, meaning you set a target peak boost and hope for the best it tries to maintain it.

ECU-controlled boost has 16 rpm points of wastegate duty cycle control and full error correction that is constantly monitoring if boost is above or below target and adding/subtracting WGDC to maintain boost target.

The other huge advantage is that with stock ECU map switching, boost switches as well with the map switching. One switch for tune and boost change.

I really don't want this to convert into a MBC vs EBC vs ECU-controlled boost thread.

 

That is precisely the question I asked originally. Does the EBC hold boost better than the MBC, or was it the turbo. Re-read the original question. It was from there that all hell started breaking loose. That's ok too, the discussion is still going which indicates interest in the reasons and results.

 

Is the HKS EVC closed loop? Was always curious about that since I believe it is the only EBC I've seen where you punch a boost target not a duty cycle.

 

I hear you Bryan. I also remember you offering to help me set ours up on the ecu based boost. I don't forget that and appreciated it at the time. You've certainly been at the front of that area for a while.

 

Much better units available than discussed here.

 

Umm.. I think that would be the turbo. See the above boost plots that Bryan provided. Both the green and the BBK start at 28psi and the green has tapered to 21.5 psi while the BBK is still blowing strong at what looks to be around 26psi at 7500 rpms.

Note: btw.. That pencil dyno is not looking so hot if I subtract 15whp/tq accross the board for the head and a few more for the C16 / AEM EMS.

 

The EVC VI offers 3D boost mapping (TPSvsRPM) (or TPS vs Speed) and yes it is target boost so it has error correction built in. The unit also costs over $600.

You can also buy an additional $130 software package that allows you to fine tune the controller and datalog boost via a laptop.

Starting to sound like ECU-controlled boost (free with Evo) + a good 3 port solenoid ($50-$100) right?